30mins? seriously?
Sounds like Jax was in a pool. Seems like a pretty benign environment to "go off in the corner" and do some additional diving (e.g. backkicking) although whether there is enough room might have been an issue. Jax?
My Venture into GUE - Another view
- Thread starter Jax
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
- Status
30mins? seriously?
Sounds like Jax was in a pool. Seems like a pretty benign environment to "go off in the corner" and do some additional diving (e.g. backkicking) although whether there is enough room might have been an issue. Jax?
In that situation, I would also say no. If I (as the instructor) had booked the pool etc, then it is my responsibility with what is going on in it.
That said, I won't take 6 people on a class (I'll split it into 2 seperate classes) and I make sure we get plenty of water time.
For me I assume that all of my students are coming into the class with very little experience, and I make sure that I do everything I can to teach them what needs to be done. The problem with multiple teams on the class is that there is no spare instructor time in the schedule to try and fix problems and so these kind of things can occur, and this is why I avoid multi-team classes.
Thanks
John
OP
Yes, we were in a pool for the first three days.
I would like to correct a misconception -- I did not have a "bad" or "negative" experience. It was an experience. Period.
A "bad" experience would be landing in the hospital. A "good" experience would be LMAO the entire time. This was just an experience, a class I took.
Would I do it again? No, because I got the same from other classes. I just need to practice what I know. I wish I hadn't sent my drysuit for seals instead of diving it with my singles, but we all have 20/20 hindsight. I'm glad I learned the GUE way. If I dive with a GUE person, I hope it will give them some comfort. C'est le vie.
I would like to correct a misconception -- I did not have a "bad" or "negative" experience. It was an experience. Period.
A "bad" experience would be landing in the hospital. A "good" experience would be LMAO the entire time. This was just an experience, a class I took.
Would I do it again? No, because I got the same from other classes. I just need to practice what I know. I wish I hadn't sent my drysuit for seals instead of diving it with my singles, but we all have 20/20 hindsight. I'm glad I learned the GUE way. If I dive with a GUE person, I hope it will give them some comfort. C'est le vie.
- Messages
- 5,120
- Reaction score
- 1,969
- # of dives
- I just don't log dives
Jax,
Thanks for your very candid class report. It is refreshing to read multiple view points of the same class. Every class is a learning experience, whether you achieve the course goals or more importantly learn about yourself. Challenges always bring personal growth.
Sounds like you need more time chasing turtles...with me.
Thanks for your very candid class report. It is refreshing to read multiple view points of the same class. Every class is a learning experience, whether you achieve the course goals or more importantly learn about yourself. Challenges always bring personal growth.
Sounds like you need more time chasing turtles...with me.
Oh, and BTW, I dove with a hood for two reasons. One is that I get COLD, and a hood makes a BIG difference. But the other is that my photographer friends (and husband) don't like flopping, wavy hair
LiteHedded
Contributor
seems like it would have been helpful to do the class in a wetsuit since you were diving a single tank anyway. especially with the short exposures.
but hindsight and all...
but hindsight and all...
ligersandtions
Contributor
Just a couple things I wanted to respond to...
A Fundies class can be a high-stress situation....but outside of the class, having more refined skills makes the diving a lot more fun.
I can't say it's true for all GUE trained divers, but the buddies I dive with are a ton of fun. We plan our dives (sometimes it's as simple as "let's go in the water and play around for an hour", but other times it requires more thought and thorough planning), have a blast in the water, and offer feedback at the end of the dive (somtime's it's "your barrel rolls were freaking awesome today!" while other times it's "your light signals seemed erratic and I kept worrying that something was wrong, so you should work on smoothing things out"). Very few GUE trained divers I've ever met would call you out on dropping your knees a little or coming out of trim a bit (given a rather benign environment....I suspect it would not be the same in a cave or wreck)....not a ton of nazi GUE divers that I've met, though I'm sure they exist.
Also, someone mentioned previously that diving with other GUE trained divers before the class really does help. Additionally, if you don't have similarly trained buddies to dive with after the class, taking the class is likely not going to be quite as worthwhile, imo.
You do not need to go into a Fundies class having skills nearly perfected, but it sure does help if you know what good trim feels like and you can hover (motionlessly) and watch demonstrations and your buddies. IMO, sounds like a Primer class might have been better for you.
If you're not feeling too jaded about this class and this type of diving in general, do try to take people up on their offer to dive with them. The PNW has an active group of divers....as does Socal, Monterey, NY, and probably others. It really has the potential to be a lot of fun....it just sounds like you bit off more than you could chew in this particular class.
As a side note, six students (even with two instructors) is too many. When I took my class, my instructor suggested co-teaching a class with another instructor....I told him that that was fine, but that I would not be part of it. Two to three students and one instructor is good....any more is a cluster.
A Fundies class can be a high-stress situation....but outside of the class, having more refined skills makes the diving a lot more fun.
I can't say it's true for all GUE trained divers, but the buddies I dive with are a ton of fun. We plan our dives (sometimes it's as simple as "let's go in the water and play around for an hour", but other times it requires more thought and thorough planning), have a blast in the water, and offer feedback at the end of the dive (somtime's it's "your barrel rolls were freaking awesome today!" while other times it's "your light signals seemed erratic and I kept worrying that something was wrong, so you should work on smoothing things out"). Very few GUE trained divers I've ever met would call you out on dropping your knees a little or coming out of trim a bit (given a rather benign environment....I suspect it would not be the same in a cave or wreck)....not a ton of nazi GUE divers that I've met, though I'm sure they exist.
Also, someone mentioned previously that diving with other GUE trained divers before the class really does help. Additionally, if you don't have similarly trained buddies to dive with after the class, taking the class is likely not going to be quite as worthwhile, imo.
You do not need to go into a Fundies class having skills nearly perfected, but it sure does help if you know what good trim feels like and you can hover (motionlessly) and watch demonstrations and your buddies. IMO, sounds like a Primer class might have been better for you.
If you're not feeling too jaded about this class and this type of diving in general, do try to take people up on their offer to dive with them. The PNW has an active group of divers....as does Socal, Monterey, NY, and probably others. It really has the potential to be a lot of fun....it just sounds like you bit off more than you could chew in this particular class.
As a side note, six students (even with two instructors) is too many. When I took my class, my instructor suggested co-teaching a class with another instructor....I told him that that was fine, but that I would not be part of it. Two to three students and one instructor is good....any more is a cluster.
Yeah unfortunately that just makes class(es) even less accessible to students who aren't in an instructor's immediate area.
Three is actually ideal once you move on (C1/T1) since its an opportunity for much more challenging and thought provoking round-robins of "issues".
I have helped with classes of 6 students, 2 instructors and me with video. It actually works well if everyone is organized. And allows for varied feedback to students, we try not to contradict each other lol.
Thanks for the write up. I have been diving with GUE trained divers and in fact they inspired me to go the BPW long hose route. Along with people here on SB. At one time I did consider fundies with no expectation of passing the eval the first time or even ever to be honest. I only wanted the education. A number of things have prevented that from happening and this actually brought up a couple more.
First of all was time and money. The first has now been taken care of as I finally got my thrid week of vacation but the last is still an issue as I have elected to concentrate on lots of local and semi local diving to get as much in water time as possible and be completely out of debt in 3 yrs. So unless I get a bunch of classes this year or the book REALLY takes off and gives me the financial means Fundies will have to wait.
Next is the fact that I don't have any regular buddies that would be interested in doing it. So essentially I'd be using the skills on a lot of solo dives or trying to incorporate them into my classes with OW or advanced students. No harm there really but I think my classes are full enough with material. I already work on buoyancy and trim in OW and my AOW classes are expected to perform basic skills in trim in midwater before starting the class. At the end they should be doing them with no change in depth or breathing pattern.
And while I can swim a long time I have issues with speed. A right shoulder injury limits my range of motion and it gets sore to the point I need to keep altering strokes which really affects times. This injury also has forced me to make adjusmtments to the way I do valve drills. Left handed I'm fine with the valve and isolator. Right arm I need to loosen the waist strap and hoist the tank on singles. Doubles are ok but not as smooth as I'd like. Stretching helps but not enough at times thanks to a workers comp doctor.
Bob is who I would likely do it with as he often teaches at Dutch which is not too far but would still involve lodging costs and meals hence back to finances. I did not know he doesn't care for the DSS rig. I have two of them. One for singles that is much more stable than any other I've used and the lack of an STA puts the valve closer to my head that improves my ability to get to it. I would still like to take the class but it is not something I see as a necessary part of my diving right now. The skills and feedback would be great and very welcome. The stress that Jax talked of not so much. But going in with the idea of just getting an education as opposed to a card may seriously reduce that.
I have been in the water with a number of GUE divers and never found any hint of anything but having fun. Some different ideas of fun but fun. My idea of fun is at times to do nothing but work on skills and try to see how efficient and controlled I can be. I also like to just get off by myself and look at the scenery alone. So again thanks for the report and giving me a few more things to consider before committing to a class. For me Adv Nitrox and Deco would be more useful right now for the diving I do along with an advanced wreck or sidemount.
First of all was time and money. The first has now been taken care of as I finally got my thrid week of vacation but the last is still an issue as I have elected to concentrate on lots of local and semi local diving to get as much in water time as possible and be completely out of debt in 3 yrs. So unless I get a bunch of classes this year or the book REALLY takes off and gives me the financial means Fundies will have to wait.
Next is the fact that I don't have any regular buddies that would be interested in doing it. So essentially I'd be using the skills on a lot of solo dives or trying to incorporate them into my classes with OW or advanced students. No harm there really but I think my classes are full enough with material. I already work on buoyancy and trim in OW and my AOW classes are expected to perform basic skills in trim in midwater before starting the class. At the end they should be doing them with no change in depth or breathing pattern.
And while I can swim a long time I have issues with speed. A right shoulder injury limits my range of motion and it gets sore to the point I need to keep altering strokes which really affects times. This injury also has forced me to make adjusmtments to the way I do valve drills. Left handed I'm fine with the valve and isolator. Right arm I need to loosen the waist strap and hoist the tank on singles. Doubles are ok but not as smooth as I'd like. Stretching helps but not enough at times thanks to a workers comp doctor.
Bob is who I would likely do it with as he often teaches at Dutch which is not too far but would still involve lodging costs and meals hence back to finances. I did not know he doesn't care for the DSS rig. I have two of them. One for singles that is much more stable than any other I've used and the lack of an STA puts the valve closer to my head that improves my ability to get to it. I would still like to take the class but it is not something I see as a necessary part of my diving right now. The skills and feedback would be great and very welcome. The stress that Jax talked of not so much. But going in with the idea of just getting an education as opposed to a card may seriously reduce that.
I have been in the water with a number of GUE divers and never found any hint of anything but having fun. Some different ideas of fun but fun. My idea of fun is at times to do nothing but work on skills and try to see how efficient and controlled I can be. I also like to just get off by myself and look at the scenery alone. So again thanks for the report and giving me a few more things to consider before committing to a class. For me Adv Nitrox and Deco would be more useful right now for the diving I do along with an advanced wreck or sidemount.
- Messages
- 93,580
- Reaction score
- 92,017
- Location
- On the Fun Side of Trump's Wall
- # of dives
- 2500 - 4999
Boy does that report bring back memories.
Jax ... I think what you experienced isn't too uncommon. I came out of my first Fundies class really disheartened and just about ready to go burn my gear. It was partly because I went in with a pretty high opinion of my abilities, and didn't live up to my own expectations. Once I realized that, I took some pressure off myself and settled down to practicing the skills I knew I needed to work on.
Sounds like that might be what you need to do too.
FWIW - I took the class a second time a year later and had a ball. I went in a lot better prepared, and with an attitude that I didn't need to pass ... I just needed to fulfill my expectations of myself. It made a huge difference.
Just curious ... did your instructor say why he felt the DSS singles rig is "inherently unstable"? That surprises me. I dive a DSS Torus 35 singles rig regularly ... and frankly I find it at least as stable as my Halcyon rig, which uses an Eclipse 40.
Oh, and about those materials ... that's funny! I had the same reaction and got the same response in 2004 ... they were working on new stuff. I write manuals for a living, and seeing sloppy materials always bugs me ... but it's not unique to GUE. I once volunteered to help rewrite some NAUI training materials too ... and got pretty much the same response. So when I became an instructor, I just wrote my own ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Jax ... I think what you experienced isn't too uncommon. I came out of my first Fundies class really disheartened and just about ready to go burn my gear. It was partly because I went in with a pretty high opinion of my abilities, and didn't live up to my own expectations. Once I realized that, I took some pressure off myself and settled down to practicing the skills I knew I needed to work on.
Sounds like that might be what you need to do too.
FWIW - I took the class a second time a year later and had a ball. I went in a lot better prepared, and with an attitude that I didn't need to pass ... I just needed to fulfill my expectations of myself. It made a huge difference.
Just curious ... did your instructor say why he felt the DSS singles rig is "inherently unstable"? That surprises me. I dive a DSS Torus 35 singles rig regularly ... and frankly I find it at least as stable as my Halcyon rig, which uses an Eclipse 40.
Oh, and about those materials ... that's funny! I had the same reaction and got the same response in 2004 ... they were working on new stuff. I write manuals for a living, and seeing sloppy materials always bugs me ... but it's not unique to GUE. I once volunteered to help rewrite some NAUI training materials too ... and got pretty much the same response. So when I became an instructor, I just wrote my own ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
- Status
Similar threads
