NACD Instructor standards violation

[The Chairman]

From what I have heard from a few of the people that wrote it, the meaning is basically "don't go promoting cave diving to non overhead divers, let them come to you".

Simply having a web site that lists your classes violates that. The problem is that many simply don't get that simple distinction. It's like a Fight Club thing: The first rule about Cave Training is that you don't talk about Cave Training. It's stupid. It's short sighted. It's a rule unintentionally broken by almost every cave instructor.

 

[tbone1004]

how is listing the available classes not promoting cave diving? they are not actively promoting, only listing what is available. PADI actively promotes their cavern program, I have yet to see the CDS or NACD actively promote cave diving to students.

So if the agencies don't want instructors promoting the sport because it adds increased risk and damage to the caves, how should that rule be written and enforced?

 

[cerich]

I have no idea. Sounds like more innuendo and I doubt there's little actual evidence to support the theories. The cave community is fractured. It's worse than the Hatfields and McCoys and instead of being ashamed of the antics, we hold expulsion over people's heads for merely talking about it.

And a note: I've already got calls by friends of Larry Green. I haven't suggested that Larry has orchestrated anything. I've been told that he has rejected the offer of Training chair at this point. I did point out that the rumors are flying and that in true form the cave community embraces the rumors and innuendos OVER THE ACTUAL FACTS with alarming ease and consistency. When's it going to stop? When is the cave community going to get out of sixth grade and stop with the endless childishness? Until transparency is embraced by all the agencies, then it's never going to end. Never.

Speaking of rumors.....been hearing that the NACD website is down...c cards can't get printed and more.... Since we are talking about rumors should that one be discussed? Because if somebody did that in revenge for "being railroaded" that would be somebody getting back at the whole world because they are butt hurt. What about the rumour that a statement was made that if Rob goes down for this he is bringing everybody down....

The problem with rumours is they can be used for an agenda too often.

 

[The Chairman]

Speaking of rumors.....been hearing that the NACD website is down.

I can confirm that the nacdmembers.com website is down and that it has absolutely nothing to do with Rob Neto. We had a server crash while I was on a boat off the coast of Mexico at the Sorocco Islands. It toasted several websites, including a few of my own. I can not recover any of the info off the hard drives, so we are reconstructing these web sites from back-ups. At this point, NACD is doing a complete website design and I will assist them in any way that I can. I have no idea about the other rumors you refer to, so I'm not much help there.

The truth might be embarrassing as it is in this case. Transparency means you don't try to spin it: you own the responsibility for it. Before Sheck wrote the "Blueprint for survival", it was considered bad form to talk openly about cave injuries and deaths. It's my opinion that we lost a lot of people because of that lack of transparency. Even today, in spite of forums like ScubaBoard, the pros and cons of getting certified for cave diving are hard to suss out. By not talking about it, we lend credence to the disinformation that's out there. By the decision to not recruit, many divers don't realize that it's absolutely imperative to get the proper training and develop the right attitude before you risk your life.

 

[cerich]

I can confirm that the nacdmembers.com website is down and that it has absolutely nothing to do with Rob Neto. We had a server crash while I was on a boat off the coast of Mexico at the Sorocco Islands. It toasted several websites, including a few of my own. I can not recover any of the info off the hard drives, so we are reconstructing these web sites from back-ups. At this point, NACD is doing a complete website design and I will assist them in any way that I can. I have no idea about the other rumors you refer to, so I'm not much help there.

The truth might be embarrassing as it is in this case. Transparency means you don't try to spin it: you own the responsibility for it. Before Sheck wrote the "Blueprint for survival", it was considered bad form to talk openly about cave injuries and deaths. It's my opinion that we lost a lot of people because of that lack of transparency. Even today, in spite of forums like ScubaBoard, the pros and cons of getting certified for cave diving are hard to suss out. By not talking about it, we lend credence to the disinformation that's out there. By the decision to not recruit, many divers don't realize that it's absolutely imperative to get the proper training and develop the right attitude before you risk your life.

Thanks for the heads up on the web site. One from our quashed....many more need to be.

 

[The Chairman]

So if the agencies don't want instructors promoting the sport because it adds increased risk and damage to the caves, how should that rule be written and enforced?

So, now you have PADI, SDI/TDI and other agencies whose instructors do not meet the same exhaustive criteria as the NACD and the NSS-CDS promoting their classes and you don't see this as an 'increased risk'?

I think that silly rule needs to be simply eliminated. If you want to decrease risk and lesson damage, limit WHO can become an instructor and stop restricting the best instructors from promoting themselves. The rule might have worked, albeit with a few tragic consequences, before the other agencies started promoting classes with dubious instructors and requirements, but now it's imperative that they unfetter their instructors and let them get first crack at teaching people going into caves.

Thanks for the heads up on the web site. One from our quashed....many more need to be.

No. They don't need to be quashed, Chris. They need to be ignored. FUDDD: Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt, Deception and distortion have no place in the cave community. They might be part and parcel in American politics, but they don't belong here. There are lots of grey area practices going on. Orange Grove, Eagles Nest and so on have been used inappropriately by a number of instructors over the years. One does it, another follows suit and then someone who doesn't like one of the instructors uses it to destroy them. Why? Because they can. Because they want to. Then the community adds to the problem by adding innuendo, myths and outright lies about the instructor. Like I said, it's like being in sixth grade all over again.

Let's start by assuming everyone is INNOCENT until proven guilty. It's part and parcel of our juris prudence system and I think it's high time we had that kind of class in the cave community.

 

[tbone1004]

it is not up to the NACD or the CDS to police the caves. If PADI and TDI want to promote cave diving that is their prerogative and if the CDS/NACD don't like it, they can control who their instructors are. That doesn't mean they have to get into other agencies business. The instructors are very limited in the CDS and NACD, it is an exhaustive process, the same can't be said for all of the other agencies. It then becomes up to the students to do their research, but one agency can't hold another to their standards, if that was the case, GUE would have stomped out everyone else years ago.

 

[victorzamora]

Now you've pissed off Rob to the point that he is simply out of craps to give. He won't respond to these silly allegations because after TWO YEARS, it's obvious that they aren't going to go away in spite of absolutely no evidence. Rob is being rail roaded simply because he won't lower himself to continue to play cave community politics. It's no wonder that he has been bitten by the bitter bug and refuses to play along with the charade. Now, are my comments 'disparaging' or heart felt constructive criticism? There's no way for anyone but me to know my intent. If you're butthurt by the comments, then they are disparaging. If you agree with them, then I'm your cyber hero.

WHO is railroading Rob?? And as far as him not playing "cave community politics"....how does he end up in the middle of so much of the politics?

 

[PfcAJ]

WHO is railroading Rob?? And as far as him not playing "cave community politics"....how does he end up in the middle of so much of the politics?

by playing politics duh

 

[tbone1004]

also, for Larry Green to turn down the offer, an offer had to have been made. Rick made it abundantly clear that LG was not being considered for the TD position....