Personally, I try to not be totally neutral in all dimensions. I try for neutral fore-aft but I try to have some small amount of side to side stability (keel effect) to prevent turning turtle. Part of how I do that is I select small diameter tanks, usually doubles or triples, and have them rigged as close to my body and CG as possible.
"neutral" trim
- Thread starter sambolino44
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By the way, it is easy to remain in perfect trim when removing and replacing twin AL80's underwater by flipping them over one's head when doffing and donning. Steel tanks are not so easy. In fact, since I mostly teach in AL tanks, whenever I try the skill with steels, it isn't pretty at all.
If anyone can remain perfectly balanced in trim while removing and replacing large steel tanks, then it just goes to show that practice makes all the difference whether you are trying to maintain good trim wearing your gear or when removing and replacing it. You can move a lot of weight around your body, even all the way forward, and still be able to stabilize.
If anyone can remain perfectly balanced in trim while removing and replacing large steel tanks, then it just goes to show that practice makes all the difference whether you are trying to maintain good trim wearing your gear or when removing and replacing it. You can move a lot of weight around your body, even all the way forward, and still be able to stabilize.
OP
sambolino44
Contributor
By the way, cool video of the side-mount guy, but I don't see any wing or BC.
adm3745
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That video is awesome. It makes me want to dive sidemount even though I have no need for it.
Go Side Mount - Steve Bogaerts
He uses only a small 5 or 6 lb "wing" that looks like a hydration bag.
Go Side Mount - Steve Bogaerts
He uses only a small 5 or 6 lb "wing" that looks like a hydration bag.
Bubbletrubble
Contributor
@sambolino44: Steve uses an MSR Dromedary bag as a BCD. Here's a link to a picture of his gear.
For more info on his system, go to his website.
Enjoy...
Soakedlontra
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I guess I have started a hell of a heck of a discussion! It is very interesting reading all the posts. Thank you all!
cloudswinger
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It takes me a bit of effort to turn roll sideways or to flip over underwater. But then again, I have the standard jacket bc with single al80 tank configuration. It seems that the steel tanks are more likely to roll you over then? Or is it in combination with the BP/W, since there's no air on your sides?
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It all depends on how your weight (all weight, not just the lead) is distributed around you as well as the air.
In the pool, I use a steel 45, which is a few lbs negative, and a few pounds of lead in WI pockets and a 3mm wetsuit with a jacket BC. This is pretty much perfectly balanced and trimmed in any position, since the weight is evenly distributed around me roughly in thirds, about 120° apart, and being a stab jacket means the air can move around as needed.
I've been unable to reproduce this with any other equipment, since it requires that your center of mass be in the center of you, which can't easily be achieved with various random collections of equipment. Changing almost anything changes how much weight you need, which throws everything off, making you more or less stable in various positions.
Terry
1. So much of neutral (buoyancy) trim depends on many factors. I dive mostly cold water with a drysuit but sometimes I'll dive in my wetsuit, but no, I dive a little heavy.
2. I wear most of my weight on a weight belt with the majority towards the front, and sides.
3. Returning to a normal trim position requires very little effort.
4. Depends on the reason I'm out of trim and the position I'm in. I shoot video so it seems like I'm always in some bizarre position. When checking on my buddy I sometimes rollover or go head down to look and check on them. But the room and effort to get back into proper trim depends on the angle and how much kelp I end up tangled in.
1. Do you have neutral trim? If so, do you dive in cold water? I dive in cold water, and if your definition of neutral trim is that I am perfectly stable in any position, no, I do not have it. My trim is biased toward being stable in a horizontal position.
2. Do you wear weights that are located at the bottom when you are in your normal diving position? With a single tank, I wear two 10 lb shaped weights on a belt. They sit over my hipbones (iliac crest). With doubles, I have a belt with weights distributed along either side of me (12 lbs, 4 - 3lb weights). Everything else is on my back.
3. How much effort does it take you to return to face-down, horizontal trim if you have gotten onto your back? In a single tank, it's a fin movement. In doubles, it's a couple of fin movements and a kind of rotational movement of my trunk. It's harder with doubles -- there's more mass to move.
4. How much room to maneuver do you need to get back to face-down position? (I ask this because I only ever get discombobulated when I'm in a tight space, and have to try not to knock into everything getting back to trim) I have to have enough room to move my fins out to the side -- about the amount I need to frog kick. Turning back over doesn't drive me forward or backward, that I've noticed. I'll have to get myself in a small space and play with this.
2. Do you wear weights that are located at the bottom when you are in your normal diving position? With a single tank, I wear two 10 lb shaped weights on a belt. They sit over my hipbones (iliac crest). With doubles, I have a belt with weights distributed along either side of me (12 lbs, 4 - 3lb weights). Everything else is on my back.
3. How much effort does it take you to return to face-down, horizontal trim if you have gotten onto your back? In a single tank, it's a fin movement. In doubles, it's a couple of fin movements and a kind of rotational movement of my trunk. It's harder with doubles -- there's more mass to move.
4. How much room to maneuver do you need to get back to face-down position? (I ask this because I only ever get discombobulated when I'm in a tight space, and have to try not to knock into everything getting back to trim) I have to have enough room to move my fins out to the side -- about the amount I need to frog kick. Turning back over doesn't drive me forward or backward, that I've noticed. I'll have to get myself in a small space and play with this.
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