new divers and rescue skills

[TMHeimer]

Always an interesting topic. Requiring OW divers to have CPR is an idea I haven't heard here before--makes sense to me. As far as rescue skills--Everybody is different. Maybe someone with only the 4 checkout dives could digest quite a few skills. Whereas someone with 20-30 dives may have trouble with that. I don't think a majority of the Rescue Course should be taught in OW. But some skills, yes (more than the tired diver tow). I recall in the PADI OW manual it says .......and perform CPR or find someone who knows how... (something like that). If no one there knows how, well... So that's not a really thorough rescue situation. Exactly which skills would be most important and should be taught in OW would require input/agreement from people more experienced than me. Another thought would be to really encourage new divers to buddy only with more experienced ones. Two complete newbies together doesn't sound too safe to me (though that was the case with me).

 

[lowviz]

...//...Jim Lapenta was stating that even a brand new open water diver right out of basic open water trainingshould be able to support a diver at the surface, get control of a panicked diver at the surface, bring up an unconscious diver from depth, tow and unconscious diver while stripping gear to the boat/shore....//....

Jim teaches under the SEI aegis and pushes the "latitude" his agency gives its instructors to the limit. His choice. There are other OW instructors around.

I drove from the East coast to take rescue from him, met his standards and passed the course. Yes, it does sound like too much, difficult to explain but Jim feeds it to you at your own pace. Try it, you may surprise yourself. One of my "better" certs...

 

[Garrobo]

Probably 99% of newbie OW divers would have enough ascending by themselves let alone trying to save someone else in distress.

 

[lowviz]

Probably 99% of newbie OW divers would have enough ascending by themselves let alone trying to save someone else in distress.

Yes, it is all about where you bestow the coveted "I can get my tanks filled" cert. Not all instructors draw the same line in the sand. Fine by me...

 

[Splitlip]

Subscribing.

 

[SCUBA482]

Or take Fundies..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Different agencies have different standards on this one.

NAUI ... the agency I teach for ... requires some Rescue skills to be taught at every level. In their entry-level class (Scuba Diver ... the equivalent of OW) we teach tired diver tows and unconscious diver recovery ... the latter requires the student to recover an unconscious diver from the bottom at a minimum depth of 10 feet (I require 20 feet), establish positive buoyancy, remove the weight belt, mask and snorkel, and simulate in-water rescue breathing. I also require them to tow the victim toward shore a minimum of 50 feet.

This sounds difficult to some. It's not. Every entry-level student I've ever trained has done this rescue skill as part of their initial certification. Year before last I had a 12-year old girl who weighed all of 75 lbs complete this skill flawlessly on her final OW checkout dive. Her "victim" was her father ... who outweighed her by at least 100 lbs. She did it textbook ... because it never occurred to her that it was supposed to be hard.

This exercise can easily be taught at the OW level ... and agencies like NAUI and SEI demonstrate that is so with every student they train.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Or take Fundies..

... Fundies doesn't teach Rescue skills ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

From the GUE description of skills required for Fundamentals:

12. Demonstrate dive-rescue techniques, including effective management of a casualty at the surface

 

[Bob DBF]

In response to another thread in the New Divers section I thought I would start a new thread instead of hijack the other one.

Jim Lapenta was stating that even a brand new open water diver right out of basic open water training should be able to support a diver at the surface, get control of a panicked diver at the surface, bring up an unconscious diver from depth, tow and unconscious diver while stripping gear to the boat/shore.

To me that seems like an awful lot of task loading for a complete newbie. To use another analogy, it's like teaching a skier to do a snow plow and then take them to the top of the mountain for trip down black diamond experts run.

Having delt with multiple medical emergencies I can tell you that the best response in emergency situations is simply experience. Brand new interns and doctors do not handle code blue situations with the same calm and collected responses as seasoned doctors who have done it many, many times before. Also, the individual personalitites play a huge role in who stays calm and who simply panicks. Repitition and experience help the more anxious prone responders calm themselves down a little but only after they've done a code blue a few times. Trust me when I tell you that there is a big difference doing it on CPR Annie which is a dummy and doing it bedside with a real person.

Just my humble opinion, but I think divers get the most out of a CPR first responder course and Rescue Diver course after they have several dives under their belt. IMO I think they should be able to instinctively control their buoyancy and trim while diving before presented with rescue/emergency responsibilities.

And Jim will take the time to do the training. At one time in history it was done.

Bad skiing analogy, rescue skills do not make you a tech diver. Also, expecting the least out of any student during training does not give the student any incentive to excell.

Teaching the basic rescue skills does not make you a "rescue diver" just as getting a Rescue card dosen't qualify you for Pararescue. It just makes you more helpfull when the s***t hits the fan. Lets face it, when your buddy panics on the surface who will be next to him, if your buddy goes unresponsive on the bottom who will be next to him, it might be advantagous to have some rescue skills.

I agree that the best response in emergency situations is simply experience, but even a Rescue Diver course does not give you experience, just training. What you hope is that the student remembers his training and does the best he can in an emergency and in responding immediatly can assist in a positive outcome.

It may take longer pool and/or OW sessions to cover this but personally I believe the time in the water should be longer anyway, at one time it was.


Bob
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I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.