New DS4

[Scubaroo]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the explanation regarding the new DIN handwheel design - great to see a representative from Apeks here. Do a search and you'll be pleasantly surprised as to the high regard these regulators are held in by divers on this board.

Two off the cuff whimisical requests

a) Do a DIR version of the ATX200 with all 3/8" ports instead of one 1/2" port! Many of us run 5' or 7' hoses off a 3/8" port with no obvious degredation of breathing performance even without retuning first & second stages - look at the popularity of the DS4 for example in the tech diving world.

b) Push your distributors to make the rebuild kits readily available to the end users. Many divers with a mechanical inkling successfully work on, rebuild and tune their own regulators (especially the tech crowd), and availability of rebuild kits and other parts is always an issue. There's enough training materials, references and experienced folks out there now that servicing of regulators by divers, not dive shops, is a reality that's here to stay (and we're not exactly dropping dead in the process) - it seems a shame that maintaining these great regulators requires divers to track down "shady" suppliers overseas to get the necessary parts.

Finally, as an online store owner in Australia, I would like to be able to sell your regs through my website (there's 5 sets of Apeks in this household for personal use already), but I can't, because of the local sole distributor's rules on online sales, which seem to be a non-issue in Europe. Bummer.

cheers

 

[Snowbear]

Oh, I don't know. They are dead set against Delrin as opposed to metal. If they don't like a plastic buckle, then they can't like a plastic DIN wheel.

So does this mean the DIR folks are going to be switching to SS light cans in the near future? Oh, B/U lights will need to be replaced as well

 

[aquaoren]

I have a pair of new DS4s for my doubles they have a plastic and rubber handwheel on the DIN valve. I broke one of my handwheels on the 1st time using them......

I would first like to take this opportunity to welcome all comments which are discussed regarding the Apeks brand of products. The comments on this and many other web forums can be a very useful point of contact with divers, which is essential for us to strive
for a better product.
With regards to the DIN hand-wheel on the Apeks DS4 & US4 regulators, I would first like to address the original statement of a broken hand-wheel. This design of hand-wheel has been successfully in use since the launch of the Black Pearl Regulator in August 2003. Unfortunately we have recently had a small batch which are susceptible to breakage with high impact (e.g. if dropped). We have since addressed the problem which caused the defect so it cannot be repeated and would like to apologise for any inconvenience which it may have caused. Also I would like to apologise for what sounds like a slow response. I will personally look into why it took two emails to respond to your request.

The design of this hand-wheel was improved back in 2003 to aid with the ergonomics of the regulator. This design took the saw tooth shape of the Yoke/‘A’ Clamp plastic/moulded hand-wheel to enable removal of the regulator to be easier than tightening. This is why the rubber grips are shaped like they are. We use this idea to reduce the effect of over tightening and improve the effect of removing with cold, wet hands.

This design of hand-wheel is manufactured using over-moulding techniques similar to that of the Yoke/‘A’ Clamp style hand-wheels, where the metal insert is over moulded.
This method was not chosen to reduce costs and certainly not to cheapen the Apeks regulator, but to move forward in design and offer improvements to the end user. This method now requires several more processes to manufacture, which still includes a large metal insert. We are pleased that we have had a very positive feed back with this new design, as for many years it has been suggested that the grip effect of metal DIN hand-wheels needed to improve and also we needed to lessen the chances of the metal cutting the skin of diver’s hands. This design and the use of plastic over-moulding techniques have been used for many years on the yoke clamp hand-wheel throughout the world.

The Co-Moulded DIN hand-wheel has been rigorously tested, both simulation and field testing, which shows that the hand-wheel can withstand the environment it will be subjected to, at working temperatures and age. It has also been tested by the UK MOD who has chosen to use this hand-wheel instead of the metal version, due to its obvious advantages.

This DIN hand wheel will eventually replace the old style on most of the Apeks range throughout the world; however the metal one will still be available. We have no plans to re-think this design and we have every confidence in the product.

I hope I have been informative enough and thanks again for the feedback.

Andy Davis

Apeks Marine Equipment Ltd.

Moving forward with design will not always result in improvment.
You could have put a plastic ring around the hand-wheel to improve the ergonomics while the hand wheel itself could have remained metal. Instead, you took a solid one piece part and made it weaker by starting moulding plastics to metal. You may want to make us believe that it is the same strength but your own experience has to show you that you went the wrong way. Having a hand wheel that is "senstive to impact", even if it was only a batch (according to you), isn't the way to go as Scuba Diving is a sport where gear shouldn't be too impact sensitive, esp. not when it concerns your air supply.

 

[StSomewhere]

Not to threadjack, but the DIR folks like the metal DIN wheels but all tank values/manifolds must be rubber. What am I missing?

 

[mwpowell]

Andy,

Thank you for taking the time to post to this forum. I'lld like to second Scubaroo's comments regarding the 1/2'' LP ports and service kits.

Regards,

Mike

 

[Andy Davis]

Andy,

Thank you for taking the time to post to this forum. I'lld like to second Scubaroo's comments regarding the 1/2'' LP ports and service kits.

Regards,

Mike

Thank you for these very constructive comments, especially the '1/2" ports' comments.
'Noted'

Best regards

Andy Davis

 

[rescuediver009]

Moving forward with design will not always result in improvment.
You could have put a plastic ring around the hand-wheel to improve the ergonomics while the hand wheel itself could have remained metal. Instead, you took a solid one piece part and made it weaker by starting moulding plastics to metal. You may want to make us believe that it is the same strength but your own experience has to show you that you went the wrong way. Having a hand wheel that is "senstive to impact", even if it was only a batch (according to you), isn't the way to go as Scuba Diving is a sport where gear shouldn't be too impact sensitive, esp. not when it concerns your air supply.

Thanks for the update from the source Andy, unfortunately some believe that they as one diver among millions have the solution to the problem. I agree that the rubber better facilitates removal in cold and wet conditions. I do not think that the quality of the instrument has been sacrificed in changing the material. Clearly, this user (not really an apeks user) in unsure about the materials on the handwheel and is self-misinformed as to the quality of the part. I do believe that as a manufacturer of fine coldwater regulators, apeks made this decision with intentions of moving forward. And as always I am sure they will.
As for making the service kits available I would find it interesting to know how many would sacrafice their warranty for the parts availability?!?! In my opinion I think that keeping them in the distributors hands is best.

 

[mwpowell]

I would find it interesting to know how many would sacrafice their warranty for the parts availability?!?!.

I would.

 

[sylvester]

I recived a message from Andy in which he seems to want to help me correct the problem, I really do appricate his response here on the board and in private and want to make sure that the rest of you know Apeks appears, concerned with the issue. I will let the final result be know when it is all over. Andy, thanks for posting here on the forum. I am sure others appricate your involvement here amongst us.

 

[Scubaroo]

As for making the service kits available I would find it interesting to know how many would sacrafice their warranty for the parts availability?!?! In my opinion I think that keeping them in the distributors hands is best.

None of my Apeks regs have a valid warranty anymore - for starters I purchased them from the UK or Spain while living in the US, and I now live in Australia, so even if I'd bought from an authorised US dive store, the Australian distributor wouldn't honor my warranty. Most distributors in many industries (not just diving) only warranty equipment they imported, not private parallel ("grey market") imports.

Having dived with several buddies who's "just serviced" regs of various makes have ruined the day's diving by freeflowing, not delivering air, hose o-rings extruding because hoses weren't tightened - I'll happily rebuild my own regs and know it's done properly, than trust that the new guy the store has just employed is a) properly trained b) not in a rush to get home and watch the football/see his girlfriend/whatever. My life, my regs, I'll service them myself thanks.

Of course there's plenty of good service techs out there I jus't dont like the idea of trial and error to find them.