new fin concept

[Agility]

What sort of kick is it supposed to enhance? Frogkick? or just flutter like most "new and improved" fins?

 

[Just_Me]

This I why energy in vs energy out analysis is so important. No denying factual data.

The knowledge and true understanding of what popular existing designs actually do will let you know more about the viability of any new design than anything else.

Since from the sounds I things you don't yet have a prototype, merely a hypothesis perhaps testing any possible outcome against the existing market would be the best next step.

 

[danvolker]

Given that scuba diving carries with it a certain amount of risk and expense, long time practitioners typically gravitate towards technology that is tried-n-true in terms of reliability, serviceability, and performance. Yet, growth within the scuba diving equipment industry is often driven by innovation and development of new product designs. The history of the split fin idea (Nature's Wing) may provide some useful guidance beyond just that of the engineering itself. I find it interesting how the development and licensing allowed it to carve out a solid stance in the market. People may differ on its' merits vs more traditional designs, but there is no denying that many people love these products and enjoy some benefit from owning them. If your ideas translate well to new real-world product designs, then looking at the successes and failures of past endeavors may help with road-mapping a path forward. I would also undertake a thorough review of any existing patents in the neighborhood. You never know; someone may have already been there before.

SPLIT-FINS - HOME PAGE

and then there is theft and revisionism, as the Split fin technology was largely STOLEN from Bob Evans of Force Fin, under the nose of the major players in the dive industry that watched it happen, and with the help of major dive magazines that actually drove the theft with their promotions. Now everyone is blissfully unaware of where this technology really came from......

...and on that note, let's hope this post does not get moderated out of existence, since it is in opposition to the ruling party and those running the thought control on SB.

---------- Post added August 6th, 2013 at 07:53 AM ----------

This I why energy in vs energy out analysis is so important. No denying factual data.

The knowledge and true understanding of what popular existing designs actually do will let you know more about the viability of any new design than anything else.

Since from the sounds I things you don't yet have a prototype, merely a hypothesis perhaps testing any possible outcome against the existing market would be the best next step.

Another real problem, is that most divers don't care too much about speed and efficiency....and the masses in diving are not athletically "fit", and are really looking either for a "little gear" in a fin, or, a magic bullet that can't possibly work.

The carbon fiber and composite freedive fins, running around $350 to $400 just for the blades( still need to by the foot pockets), are an enormous leap beyond the technology and designs of the major brands sold to Scuba divers. While divers will hear how much better these fins are, the INDUSTRY tells them that they are harder to walk in (this is for underwater use, is it not?), and that they should not worry about going fast anyway.....The Industry, is corrupt....it favors the big advertisers. Innovation is it's enemy, unless it comes with a huge advertising budget.

I would love to find a new direction in fins, and another quantum leap in efficiency and performance potential from my DiveR freedive fins ( which I use for scuba), but the market will not drive this. Guys like Bob Evans might have been able to help you, but after he had his work stolen from them, and then watched the other manufacturers and shops all over the US turn their backs on him, I don't think Bob is feeling great love for the industry, or in trying to get yet another superior product out to market. And then again, only a handful of Scubaboard members may ever be able to read even my thoughts on this, as they go against the industry, and as such, may well be removed by the thought police of Scubaboard.. You do NOT communicate here on SB in a free society, and you do NOT have the right to Free Speech.....this is something you must understand, if you want to market a new product against the will of those controlling the medias.

 

[The Chairman]

...and on that note, let's hope this post does not get moderated out of existence, since it is in opposition to the ruling party and those running the thought control on SB.

And then again, only a handful of Scubaboard members may ever be able to read even my thoughts on this, as they go against the industry, and as such, may well be removed by the thought police of Scubaboard.. You do NOT communicate here on SB in a free society, and you do NOT have the right to Free Speech.....this is something you must understand, if you want to market a new product against the will of those controlling the medias.

Dan,

It would be far less cowardly for you to call me on the phone and say this to my face. You can even resort to calling me an a-hole or a stroke and I would respect it more. For the record, many in the Scuba Industry hate ScubaBoard because we refuse to censor thoughts and negative comments on just those merits. DEMA refuses to work with us at all and claims that the lawyers won't let them. All the while they eagerly use all sorts of other media like Facebook et al. However, we refuse to tolerate vendettas, mean spirited speech or threats even if you're someone special like Dan Volker. It's a common ploy for someone who gets moderated for doing any of the three to cry "censorship". It's easier to just obey our rules on civility. ScubaBoard has become the world's largest community for divers because we have rules that require respect and civility from it's members. It's no one's fault but your own if you get censored for being a jerk. Be nice and you won't get moderated. It's so simple, even you can understand it.

FWIW, Bob Evans is a dear, dear friend and one of ScubaBoard's biggest fans. Why? Because we aren't DEMA lackeys. We don't and won't allow corporate Scuba to dictate what gets moderated here. It's why the moderation team is separate from the business team. My highlight every DEMA show is to see Bob. He's one of the most fun and pleasant people you could ever hope to meet.

Sorry for the off topic post, but I felt that this cowardly defamation on the moderators of ScubaBoard should be addressed. You may now return to the topic at hand. Please add any commentary about this alleged censorship HERE.

 

[beanojones]

The carbon fiber and composite freedive fins, running around $350 to $400 just for the blades( still need to by the foot pockets), are an enormous leap beyond the technology and designs of the major brands sold to Scuba divers.

Additionally, if you have to stick to shorter lengths even cutting down these freediving fins works amazing well. It hurts to put a cutter to these expensive blades but if that's the only way to get there...

I would love to do all my diving in proper free diving fins, but shore diving makes boots necessary.

 

[cb5150]

Wow. This went from questions about new fin technology to paranoid rants about scuba Nazis. I love watching a train wreck.

 

[danvolker]

Additionally, if you have to stick to shorter lengths even cutting down these freediving fins works amazing well. It hurts to put a cutter to these expensive blades but if that's the only way to get there...

I would love to do all my diving in proper free diving fins, but shore diving makes boots necessary.

And the Owner of DiveR freediving fins, Ray Powell, actually said the same thing...that if I want my DiveR's to perform as ideal Cave diving or Wreck penetrations fins...fins that would blow away Scuba Pro Jet Fins, all I have to do is to "cut my beautiful $400 blades shorter, to jet fin lengths".... the horror!!! But, it would be an option
Another option is for me to avoid exploration level penetrations in to shipwreck---tight squeezes in silty areas where lots of reel work and hovering is required--where the long blades are a huge disadvantage--hold on a second--in these tight penetrations, there tends to be no interesting marine life, and pretty much nothing cool to see.....and there is pretty much no good reason to do this nonsense, unless it is a brand new wreck with silver bars hidden deep inside.....So if that happens, I am cutting my DiveR's down....Till it does, the long blades do everything much better that needs to be done, than the Jet fins.

 

[notation]

Okay, onward!

I'm very impressed with the depth of expertise on the board. The comments and guidance are very helpful and your generosity is much appreciated.

A few years ago traveling in a very hot Asian city, I got the idea of a novel hand-fan. Everyone was cooling off with silk paddles or folded fans. You know what they look like. The idea was to change the topology and surface area of the blades while maintaining the essential function and design of the fan. With a prototype done, including solidworks drawings and animation, I discovered the new fan could move more air with less motion/energy. Granted water is a different medium than air, they both share the same hydrodynamics. The goal is to convert those design principles to Scuba gear because the fin is really like a foot fan. I've got a drawing of the new fin design and based on the fan work, it looks like it would zoom. Flow tank test are probably required and I'd venture that a 3D printed model would work.

00wabbit, I will contact you sooner (confidential).
Just_Me, The fin type comparison is an excellent idea. Testing and validation is the key.
Maredsous, Nice heels!
Agility, I'd expect it to enhance many kick styles.
danvolker, I believe you! I didn't know about Bob Evans of Force Fin. Some industries are more prone to competition than others. I don't keep a file of the fin work in the PC and when I do any work, the wifi is shut down until the file/work is removed from the machine. Related browser history and cookies are deleted too. Not to expose the design concept on the SB, the fin probably has the potential for two models, TF1 and TF2 (TF = turbo force). The fin-print is definitely novel. I don't know, maybe it's just a dumb fan!
NetDoc, I like your style! ScubaBoard.com is #1

 

[bluejaykaren]

You should check into Kickstarter.
Kickstarter is the world's largest funding platform for creative projects. A friend of mine invented something and he funded it through kickstarter. It was quite interesting for me because he would submit updates of the machinery and supplies as he got them to show his progress and how he spent the money. I now know more about machining titanium that I had ever wanted to know but I think its a great resource for inventors.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Get a provisional patent filed before you disclose too many details. It's good for a year and will offer you some protection at minimal cost. If the design pans out, then spend the big bucks on a patent. Without that, you will give away your design.