NiTec Duo NDL for air, is this right?

[divenutny]

SparticleBrane - I have read this thread several times trying to figure out where your last two paragraphs came from. I never said the NiTec was wrong, only surprisingly conservative. Like you suggested, I did my the research before buying the NiTec. Until a few days ago, I was not aware how conservative computers have become. My prior computer, Suunto Eon was purchased in the 90's. I always heard Suunto's were conservative so it surprised me that the NiTek was as conservative or more conservative. Since Dive Rite did not response, I opened this thread to hear what other NiTek owners were expirencing. I will admit, I am more annoyed with Dive Rite's lack of interest. I eventually called them to get the answers I requested. However, they probably reacted the same way other manufacturers would in the same situation. Once the sale is done . . .

I am not interested in a war of words. However, I am not blindly following my computer. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I got my answers, mostly from ScubaToys with a different thread. Great guys, will be buying from them in the future.

Thanks - Tom

 

[SparticleBrane]

Didn't mean for it to come across aggressively. The way I read your posts it sounded as if you were saying that one computer was "right" and one was "wrong", when in reality...if you think about it...neither is probably the best choice.
The last two posts were me venting my frustrations with too many divers who just don't think ahead. They submerge and immediately all common sense is lost. The way I read it, it sounded as if you were going to blindly follow the computer. I apologize for any offense I may have caused...

 

[divenutny]

No worries. My therapist needs the money. In a few days, I will be able to sleep though the night without crying in my pillow.

You give sound advise. You definitely need to think. With diving, this is not an option. Our brains are the best tool we have.

Hope you can get wet this weekend, I will. Plus I have a new toy to check out!

Cheers!

 

[Dive Rite]

Hello Dive Nut NY,

Sorry for the delay in response. We do monitor the Scuba Board and enjoy getting feedback and also answering your questions. Thank you for bringing this thread to our attention by contacting us via our Customer Service section of our website.

In response to the original thread...you are seeing a longer NDL at the 40’ depth with a Bühlmann algorithm computer (NiTek DUO) versus a RGBM-based algorithm computer (Suunto). This is based on the science of the algorithm and there is nothing wrong with either computer.

It is difficult to evaluate a computer and deem it “too conservative” based on this one data point. Truly, you must evaluate the difference between two different scientific algorithms and select the one that you believe will work best for you. Neither algorithm is better, they both try to achieve the same goal of allowing you to safely surface from a dive without dangerous levels of residual nitrogen that can lead to DCS.

Since you are diving within recreational limits it may be that your friend’s RGBM-driven computer is giving him “credit” for slowly ascending. It may be considering his ascent a “deep stop” so-to-speak and allow him to stay down a few minutes longer. The Bühlmann algorithm may not give that same “credit” as the algorithm may be considering that slow ascent as still deep enough to be on gassing nitrogen. Therefore, the Buhlmann algorithm would shorten the dive to stay within NDL or put you into deco. It is hard to tell based on the information provided.

In your email to us today you wrote…

“[FONT=&quot]When I bought this computer [NiTek DUO], I thought I was buying a computer that would handle “Tech Diving” To me, Tech Diving is pushing limits. This device is so conservative I can not do a Tech Dive without making the computer unusable due to the programming.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]”[/FONT]

You went on to write that you did a 90 foot dive and you had to surface six minutes before your dive partner. If you are diving within NDL, then you are not tech diving. In tech diving, we routinely take calculated risks with plenty of conservatism to perform dives beyond NDL, beyond recreational depth limits and into overhead environments. Our goal is not to push limits by taking risks, but to take calculated risks based on training and education. A tech diver would go ahead and do the extra six minutes at 90 feet, if it was important for the dive mission, and then stay an extra few minutes to wash out on deco.

Please do not confuse lack of conservatism with tech diving. Tech diving is very conservative if approached safely and with the proper training.

This is a fairly complex subject for a board discussion. The bottom line is that more bottom time is not necessarily better. The best advice we can offer to help you understand the difference between algorithms is to enroll in an Advanced Nitrox and Decompression theory course, which is beyond the scope of this thread.

Please let us know if you have further questions. Thanks again for contacting us and allowing us the chance to educate and assist.

Safe diving,
Kathleen

 

[texdiveguy]

I use both my Dive Rite Nitek Duos for recreational and technical diving----wonderful computers. I leave mine in the least conservative setting....I do alter between fresh/sea setting as needed. I have all alarm settings off. I use the computers in Gauge mode for all staged deco diving. Also in full mode it will figure stops as deep as 90ft..

 

[DEEPLOU]

I use both my Dive Rite Nitek Duos for recreational and technical diving----wonderful computers. I leave mine in the least conservative setting....I do alter between fresh/sea setting as needed. I have all alarm settings off. I use the computers in Gauge mode for all staged deco diving. Also in full mode it will figure stops as deep as 90ft..

I only have one Duo.... and an "HE". I find no reason to put the Duo into Gauge mode except when using two (or more) deco gases.

 

[texdiveguy]

I only have one Duo.... and an "HE". I find no reason to put the Duo into Gauge mode except when using two (or more) deco gases.

Cool.... I don't use He computers.....so I cut custom tables and the Duo Gage mode is a great bottom timer alternative.

 

[ianr33]

Cool.... I don't use He computers.....so I cut custom tables and the Duo Gage mode is a great bottom timer alternative.

Ever thought of plugging the O2% into the Duo and diving it as if it is nitrox? The run times are pretty similar for light Trimixes and sane bottom times.
Just curious

 

[taliesin58]

Hello Dive Nut NY,

Sorry for the delay in response. We do monitor the Scuba Board and enjoy getting feedback and also answering your questions. Thank you for bringing this thread to our attention by contacting us via our Customer Service section of our website.

In response to the original thread...you are seeing a longer NDL at the 40’ depth with a Bühlmann algorithm computer (NiTek DUO) versus a RGBM-based algorithm computer (Suunto). This is based on the science of the algorithm and there is nothing wrong with either computer.

It is difficult to evaluate a computer and deem it “too conservative” based on this one data point. Truly, you must evaluate the difference between two different scientific algorithms and select the one that you believe will work best for you. Neither algorithm is better, they both try to achieve the same goal of allowing you to safely surface from a dive without dangerous levels of residual nitrogen that can lead to DCS.

Since you are diving within recreational limits it may be that your friend’s RGBM-driven computer is giving him “credit” for slowly ascending. It may be considering his ascent a “deep stop” so-to-speak and allow him to stay down a few minutes longer. The Bühlmann algorithm may not give that same “credit” as the algorithm may be considering that slow ascent as still deep enough to be on gassing nitrogen. Therefore, the Buhlmann algorithm would shorten the dive to stay within NDL or put you into deco. It is hard to tell based on the information provided.

In your email to us today you wrote…

“[FONT=&quot]When I bought this computer [NiTek DUO], I thought I was buying a computer that would handle “Tech Diving” To me, Tech Diving is pushing limits. This device is so conservative I can not do a Tech Dive without making the computer unusable due to the programming.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]”[/FONT]

You went on to write that you did a 90 foot dive and you had to surface six minutes before your dive partner. If you are diving within NDL, then you are not tech diving. In tech diving, we routinely take calculated risks with plenty of conservatism to perform dives beyond NDL, beyond recreational depth limits and into overhead environments. Our goal is not to push limits by taking risks, but to take calculated risks based on training and education. A tech diver would go ahead and do the extra six minutes at 90 feet, if it was important for the dive mission, and then stay an extra few minutes to wash out on deco.

Please do not confuse lack of conservatism with tech diving. Tech diving is very conservative if approached safely and with the proper training.

This is a fairly complex subject for a board discussion. The bottom line is that more bottom time is not necessarily better. The best advice we can offer to help you understand the difference between algorithms is to enroll in an Advanced Nitrox and Decompression theory course, which is beyond the scope of this thread.

Please let us know if you have further questions. Thanks again for contacting us and allowing us the chance to educate and assist.

Safe diving,
Kathleen

Nice and polite response to a slightly aggressive email with no valid complaint. Very nice. Cheers and props to your customer service.



To the OP- You don't be Mac and then write to the company complaining about it not running Windows Vista. You knew computers used different models. The information about them is all over the net. I have a Duo and love it. I researched heavily on the net and the computer offers exactly what it promises. The only complaint I can think of is the 1 year warrenty Dive Rite offers instead of the 2 year Tusa one. But even then, that is no problem with the computer and nothing false was claimed. You were not cheated in anyway. Dive Rite has no benefit to shaving a couple min. off your dive time.

 

[John_B]

To the OP- You don't be Mac and then write to the company complaining about it not running Windows Vista.

[threadjack]My Mac runs XP just fine when I want it to. If I were slackbrained enough to want to downgrade to Vista (cancel or allow?), it would run that to.[/threadjack]

John