Nitrox class question

[TCDiver1]

cornfed once bubbled...

It is possible to tox and die within recreational limits. Why are you trying so hard to fight this?

Sure! Its also possible you will get hit by lighting or by a falling apple or even .... get smooshed by a landing space alien ship.

Seriously, you guys are hanging your hat on two or so instances that you know for sure o-toxed at 1.6 or lower? Any idea at all of how many dives were successful performed each year around ppO2s of 1.6 without any tox event? Thousands, more likely millions or possibly hundreds of millions?

I'm not fighting this because i think teaching O-tox rescue at the basic nitrox level is a bad thing. I'm fighting it because i don't think the statistics show it is an absolutely necessary step to teach at that level. I repeat ... show me a trend that proves basic nitrox divers are toxing at a significant rate and i'll change my mind. And please, if you think one or two incidents is a trend, don't bother typing it out. Cold as it may sound to you, i won't agree with you.

I've heard some of you repeat again and again how bad most basic divers are. If we assume this to be true, these divers when diving nitrox should be toxing left and right, correct? I mean they have terrible depth control right? They are probably yo-yoing around and past ppO2s of 1.6 all the time by your own observations right?

I honestly wonder how some of you actually work up the courage to leave the house in the morning for fear of what could happen to you that day.

 

[Warren_L]

The fact of the matter is that despite the low incidences of ox-tox below 1.6, people do make mistakes for whatever reason (i.e. not checking your own mix!). Thankfully, this does not happen too often, but there's nothing wrong with knowing how to handle a situation such as dealing with a convulsing diver.

I have air bags in my car. I've never had to use them once in the years I've had my car. They might not save me in a serious collision, but I'm sure glad they are there.

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

I've asked this before and didn't get a response.

Do the misc. organizations that record and keep diving accident and death records have any records on oxtox divers in the recreatinal world???

 

[cornfed]

gedunk once bubbled...

... get smooshed by a landing space alien ship.

That's a serious ISSUE!

Seriously, you guys are hanging your hat on two or so instances that you know for sure o-toxed at 1.6 or lower? Any idea at all of how many dives were successful performed each year around ppO2s of 1.6 without any tox event? Thousands, more likely millions or possibly hundreds of millions?

I liken it to taking an "undeserved hit". It's possible to get bent while staying within the NDLs. So I don't push them and get the training (O2) so I'm prepared in the off chance something happens. Similarly it's possible to tox while within the PP02 limits. As such I don't dive rich mixes and would like to have the training in the off chance it happens. Right now I can't get that training at the recreational level. I don't feel like I should be forced to take technical classes to address recreational issues.

I'm not fighting this because i think teaching O-tox rescue at the basic nitrox level is a bad thing. I'm fighting it because i don't think the statistics show it is an absolutely necessary step to teach at that level. I repeat ... show me a trend that proves basic nitrox divers are toxing at a significant rate and i'll change my mind. And please, if you think one or two incidents is a trend, don't bother typing it out. Cold as it may sound to you, i won't agree with you.

It's not a trend. The cases cited where given as counterexamples to the claim that it's impossible and that there are no documented cases.

I've heard some of you repeat again and again how bad most basic divers are. If we assume this to be true, these divers when diving nitrox should be toxing left and right, correct? I mean they have terrible depth control right? They are probably yo-yoing around and past ppO2s of 1.6 all the time by your own observations right?

I assume that "you" is a general because I can't remember making that claim. I do, however, think training is too short. I don't feel that they give most people a enough time to become proficient and, more importantly, comfortable. Many classes seem designed to sell you the next level ("don't feel comfortable? We have and Advance class starting next week..."). My opinion is not just based on anecdotal evidence on this board but is borne out by my personal experience. But I digress...

I honestly wonder how some of you actually work up the courage to leave the house in the morning for fear of what could happen to you that day.

I have a teddy bear that I keep with me at all times. When I get scared I go sit in a corner and hold him.

 

[cornfed]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...

Do the misc. organizations that record and keep diving accident and death records have any records on oxtox divers in the recreatinal world???

I don't know. Call DAN. There... now you have a response!

 

[Warren_L]

cornfed once bubbled...



I have a teddy bear that I keep with me at all times. When I get scared I go sit in a corner and hold him.

I should try that, LOL!

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

cornfed once bubbled...


I don't know. Call DAN. There... now you have a response!

Thaaaaaannkkssss......

 

[TCDiver1]

cornfed once bubbled...

Similarly it's possible to tox while within the PP02 limits. As such I don't dive rich mixes and would like to have the training in the off chance it happens. Right now I can't get that training at the recreational level. I don't feel like I should be forced to take technical classes to address recreational issues.


I have a teddy bear that I keep with me at all times. When I get scared I go sit in a corner and hold him.

Reasonable enough. I don't feel like i should have to pay taxes but i have to anyway. I hate that!

Fortunately through this board you can find a way to get the training you want. Unfortunately most major agencies don't feel the way you do for what they consider recreational diving. The debate will rage on.

Personally, since i'm ascared of the dark, i carry a small light with me at all times. I have a dickens of a time getting to sleep on the really dark nites.

 

[cornfed]

gedunk once bubbled...

Unfortunately most major agencies don't feel the way you do for what they consider recreational diving.

This is getting a little off topic, but I'm really interested in seeing what GUE's OW program looks like. They seem to make a point of being an alternative to the other agencies so it should be interesting.

 

[TCDiver1]

cornfed once bubbled...


This is getting a little off topic, but I'm really interested in seeing what GUE's OW program looks like. They seem to make a point of being an alternative to the other agencies so it should be interesting.

Agreed! I am very interested in that also. Time will tell.