No certificate

[Charlie99]

Is this guy for real, I sure hope he's a Troll, because the alternative is too terrifying to consider.

People seem to have a real short memory. It wasn't all that many decades ago that formal certification classes were started. In the 60's on through the 70's it wasn't all that uncommon for people to get some gear, read a book or get some informal instruction from a friend and jump in. BTW, normally without an octopus, and often with just a J-valve instead of an SPG.

While that type of diving doesn't meet today's safety standards, there weren't all that many accidents.

It's kind of like automobile seat belts. Many young people today have a hard time imagining a world where seat belts were something that only race car drivers used.

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Just like using seat belts is a good idea, going through a formal certification process before scuba diving is a good idea. Not doing so, though, does NOT mean instant death.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

People seem to have a real short memory. It wasn't all that many decades ago that formal certification classes were started. In the 60's on through the 70's it wasn't all that uncommon for people to get some gear, read a book or get some informal instruction from a friend and jump in.

I bought my first setup from a sportings good store. I asked how it worked and the salesman said "I dunno, probably some instructions in the box".

There wasn't but I figured it out. Two years later in 1967 they refused to fill my tanks without a cert card. I was angry as I had a couple of hundred dives under my belt.

Oh the things I learned. Good grief, I'm a lucky guy.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I bought my first setup from a sportings good store. I asked how it worked and the salesman said "I dunno, probably some instructions in the box".

There wasn't but I figured it out. Two years later in 1967 they refused to fill my tanks without a cert card. I was angry as I had a couple of hundred dives under my belt.

Oh the things I learned. Good grief, I'm a lucky guy.

I started diving with my cousins about 10 years before I got around to getting certified. My uncle purchased a marina that had a dive shop on it at one time so there was gear all over the place. Eventually I had to get certified because I wanted to be able to dive other places. I didn't remember learning anything new in the OW class apart from how many other classes there are. LOL and kneeling on the bottom took some getting used to because that's something that my cousin never let me do. He didn't want his dive site messed up.

Fast forward a few years and my wife and I just about had to rescue our instructor in our advanced nitrox class. Our first real technical class almost got us killed...what a mess. Our cave training was great and I wouldn't want to have had to do without it. We re-did some of our technical training with a friend who is a good instructor but only taught to the normoxic trimix level. By that time we had our own gas mixing equipment and were diving caves off the beaten path and we dived any kind of trimix that we wanted. Eventually I took an advanced trimix class primarily for access (so I could purchase fills on the road and dive regulated sites). I did learn a few things because the instructor is a great diver and spending a few days with him was educational. However, that learning didn't have anything to do with the course material or the agency texts...that was all old stuff and some of it was flat out rediculous. I would highly recommend that instructor as some one to learn diving from but that agency is full of beans, IMO.

And again, my opinion is that training is good, experience is good and mentors are good but the certification stuff is a paper chase. You can learn good diving from a good diver who is a good teacher but the possession of an instructor certification is just not proof that the holder is either. To understand how that can happen you only need to look at the skill tests that some agencies use during the instructor testing process. All they require is that the candidates demonstrate entry level skills...ie...skills like mask removal while kneeling on the bottom. You can even become an instructor with some agencies without ever having been in the water with actual students. Beyond the entry level, in some agencies an OW instructor ticket automatically qualifies the instructor to teach AOW where they can teach down to 100 ft. However, that instructor can get there by only having done one dive below 60 ft which is the dive they did in their own AOW class. The student and the instructor could be doing their first 100 ft dive together. Those AOW classes have gotten a bunch of people hurt and it's no wonder why. Don't trust the card. Know the training standards of the agency you are going to train with and do some home work so that you know something about the instructor. If the agency doesn't publish their standards where all can see and question, go the other way. If the agency can't or won't give good answers to good questions concerning those standards, go the other way. A certification card may be proof of something but it may not mean what you think it means. You don't believe every commercial that you see on TV do you? The same goes here.

 

[ScubaMike14]

I'm not aware of an agency or manufacturer that has a rule or standard that requires proof of certification for a regulator purchase. As far as I know all agencies restrict the sales of air but not equipment.

You can buy the stuff all over the net and now days there are fewer and fewer manufacturers prohibiting internet sales. What do you do when a non-diver wants to buy a gift for some one? Refuse to sell it unless they become a diver?

It's a rule at our shop. No C-Card, no air fill. Simple as that. As for the regulator, we get lots of guys who are "self taught" that come in and want to buy regs, usually asking if we have something used. We tell them to spend $99, take a class and get certified. People come in to get air all the time to get air fills for paintball. If the tank is not clearly marked "paintball only" we don't fill the tank without proof of a c-card.

Mike Rushton

 

[NEdivah]

Fair question,I am thinking of getting a certification,I know all about diving,been doing it self taught sorta. I had a job scooping up golf balls once and the man gave me his old gear so been diving in some lakes.

I think the bottom line is this... You are free to do whatever you should choose to do.(Good luck finding a reputable shop to fill your tanks) But remember every choice has a consequence be it good or bad. If you choose to continue your "self taught" diving then all I ask is this: Can you name me payee of your life insurance policy????

 

[TroyW]

PADI offers a program that will allow you to get an open water certification with out going thru the entire course. Here is the quote from the PADI Instructor manual. "Experienced Diver program is to allow you to certify divers
who are not certified, but who can provide proof of scuba experience, or to
certify divers certified by training organizations other than PADI as PADI Open
Water Divers." I would recomd that you attend a program like this so you would not have to sit thru the stuff you already know.

 

[Rookie_J]

Alternately, buy life insurance.


Doc

i haven't checked, but isn't SCUBA considered a hazardous hobby, and most life insurance is void if you die while diving?

 

[SamDiver14]

Quote:Comparing cave to open water rec is comparing apples and oranges. Commercial and military pilots all get a similar degree of training but I would be willing to bet that percentage wise more pilots are killed in jet fighter accidents than in commercial airliners accidents

I didn't know that Cave divers got shot at!!!!! Thats horrible!!!!

The greatest shame is when someone tries to make an example a perfect and complete comparison rather than a loose similarity to describe a single point.

My point still remains that some of the most highly trained divers in the world have died while DIVING. Does it then stand to reason that a person who is not trained at all will be at great risk????

But of course, "on a long enough timeline the survival rate for anyone goes to zero".

 

[captain]

Quote:Comparing cave to open water rec is comparing apples and oranges. Commercial and military pilots all get a similar degree of training but I would be willing to bet that percentage wise more pilots are killed in jet fighter accidents than in commercial airliners accidents

I didn't know that Cave divers got shot at!!!!! Thats horrible!!!!


QUOTE]

My post does not say killed in combat, it says accidents and I don't feel it is a unreasonable comparison.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

My point still remains that some of the most highly trained divers in the world have died while DIVING. Does it then stand to reason that a person who is not trained at all will be at great risk????.

Most of these "great" divers died doing things that were completely wrong.....solo, deep air etc etc......bascially they knowingly chose to perform a less than ideal plan, since they'd done it successfully hundreds of times before.......it finally happened to catch up with them.

You have to wonder, success aside, just how "smart" some of these guys really were. To me smart and luck aren't synonmous even if they look identical Maybe ya gotta be a bit of both.

I do understand (at least I hope so) that we've come a long ways since then and can now agree that what killed these guys didn't need to happen at all, but yes we still see the same dumb moves taking highest body count. I guess it's just less acceptable now. That's a good thing.

Regards