No such thing as a Pony Bottle

[Dr. Lecter]

Today the dive shop owner approached me said he saw I had a "stage bottle" an that I don't have the training for it that it's a tech level requirement and they go through hours and hours of how to use it. I said it's a pony bottle and he told me there's no such thing, people just use that phrase as an excuse and that having one causes more problems than it's worth. He doesn't want me wearing them on any training dives with his shop. He said "you don't see anyone else in my shop wearing one?!"

Personally, I'd explain that it's my dive, not his; that you have all the certifications necessary for the equipment and his opinion is relevant only in so far as it inclines you to spend your money elsewhere; that the course is, in part, about the importance of redundant gas options for deeper diving--of which the pony bottle is one; and, finally, that you'll be using it during the class dives until and unless the instructor him/herself forbids it and points out the agency standard(s) that give them the authority to do so.

If they put their foot down, do two things. First, get the name and agency of the instructor who made the call and report them to their agency. Second, demand a full refund for the course and, if you don't get it, give them the finger and have your bank handle a charge-back. Don't waste time trying to reason with holes: stomp on their throats (metaphorically speaking, of course) and drive on.

 

[The Chairman]

interesting.

First, I don't think the owner is an idiot. He's just ignorant and that's treatable.

A stage bottle is used for decompression diving. It will usually have a richer oxygen mixture than your back gas. Decompression diving requires training.

A pony or bail out bottle is used simply as a redundant air source. They are almost always filled with air. Pony/bailout bottles require zero training.

So start calling it what it is: a bail out bottle. If he doesn't believe you tell him it MUST be true. After all, you read it on ScubaBoard!!!

 

[Dr. Lecter]

A stage bottle is used for decompression diving. It will usually have a richer oxygen mixture than your back gas. Decompression diving requires training.

Quibble: stages contain bottom mix used to extend the dive as planned; deco bottles contain deco gas. Bailout is fine until he says you need CCR training to carry that Pony is an acceptable and well-understood term: it's a smaller, completely independent gas system containing bottom mix, to be used in an emergency to ascend safely and not as part of the dive as planned.

 

[PantherDiver]

He said bailout/pony in most of our conversations. I'm kind of irked, he's a professional friend. I spent this money and prepped for the sole purpose that I would be doing nearly all of PADI specialties including Deep diver this weekend. I'm being told we need to meet a required 130feet in 50 degree water because they want us to be narc'd and know how it feels. I have a farmer john wet suit 3/5, I know I'm going to be cold and narc'd because I did a 100feet at the same place in 54 and was shivering the whole dive. I wanted my "bailout" for this dive. I have red flags going off everywhere but all the instructors have done this same dive so if they can do it I should too.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

He said bailout/pony in most of our conversations. I'm kind of irked, he's a professional friend. I spent this money and prepped for the sole purpose that I would be doing nearly all of PADI specialties including Deep diver this weekend. I'm being told we need to meet a required 130feet in 50 degree water because they want us to be narc'd and know how it feels. I have a farmer john wet suit 3/5, I know I'm going to be cold and narc'd because I did a 100feet at the same place in 54 and was shivering the whole dive. I wanted my "bailout" for this dive. I have red flags going off everywhere but all the instructors have done this same dive so if they can do it I should too.

People do lots of dumb stuff, doesn't mean that you'll die automagically if you decide to follow in their footsteps any more than it means what they did was safe enough to be something you want to do.

Ultimately, you have several decisions to make. Do you want to make an even bigger stink about reporting to the agency and/or breaking any ties to the shop and getting a refund/charging back the fees (either just because or to lever a grudging "yes, ok" on your pony)? If not, do you want to do the class dives without it (the odds are good you'll be just fine because nothing will go wrong) and take your (very good) chances that a pony won't be needed?

Let's say you decide to go with the flow because you value getting these certs done more than you value the added safety of the pony and the right to decide on a reasonable precaution of your choice when you go 130' under cold water...then what? Do you really want to DM with/for these people? Me, I don't like working with idiots; working with idiots in an environment like cattle-herding dives is just begging for problems IMO.

 

[Akimbo]

… I'm being told we need to meet a required 130feet in 50 degree water because they want us to be narc'd and know how it feels...

I have never perceived Nitrogen Narcosis at 130' and the great majority of my dives have been in +/-50° F water. Same with most people I know. IMHO, your “red flags” are warranted.

 

[Doppler]

Let's try this.

I have no professional association with PADI... but if you PM me, I will send you an email address of someone at PADI HQ. I would suggest you email them and explain your problem. In the meanwhile, tell your "professional friend" you want to verify what he is telling you with PADI HQ. Everything he is telling you including the narcosis bull****.

http://decodoppler.wordpress.com/20...y-the-maligned-and-misunderstood-pony-bottle/

You may also be interested in sending him this link...

 

[boulderjohn]

He said bailout/pony in most of our conversations. I'm kind of irked, he's a professional friend. I spent this money and prepped for the sole purpose that I would be doing nearly all of PADI specialties including Deep diver this weekend. I'm being told we need to meet a required 130feet in 50 degree water because they want us to be narc'd and know how it feels. I have a farmer john wet suit 3/5, I know I'm going to be cold and narc'd because I did a 100feet at the same place in 54 and was shivering the whole dive. I wanted my "bailout" for this dive. I have red flags going off everywhere but all the instructors have done this same dive so if they can do it I should too.

As I am sure you know this is not a PADI requirement at all. If they are requiring you to go to that depth with inadequate thermal protection and refusing to let you use a pony bottle, then I would have to give PADI a call and ask for their opinion on it. I am quite sure you will get their attention.

 

[BUDMANOK]

It's my life I will take whatever precautions I need to take. He has NO say in the matter PADI has no say in the matter. Money is not even on the radar.

 

[Akimbo]

… then I would have to give PADI a call and ask for their opinion on it. I am quite sure you will get their attention.

OMG, please don’t do that. They are more likely to conjure up a new merit badge for every form of alternate gas supply invented than criticize one of their revenue generating customers.