Once a DM always liable

[DiveGolfSki]

You poor deluded soul.
In the rest of the world people realise they have a responsibility for their own personal saftey and to use a little common sense in day to day life.
What you are saying is that people in the US of A can forget about taking personal responsibility and just sue the arse off some one else if they injure themselves...

Sigh! This thread is now snowballing down the treacherous path towards trolls. US vs the rest of the world. Why don't stay off the subject. If you want a US vs. the rest of the world, watch the international. It's much more fun.

 

[H2Andy]

In the rest of the world people realise they have a responsibility for their own personal saftey and to use a little common sense in day to day life.

well... this is dangerous ground, but it's not so simple.

how about the social welfare programs that exist in much of Europe and the
British Commonwealth?

how much are you taking responsibility when the government is paying your
school, subsidizing your health care, etc. etc. etc?

sounds like you guys could learn something about self-reliance from us
irresponsible Americans

they're different systems. comparing isolated parts of one to the other is
like comparing apples and oranges. you got to see the whole picture for
things to make sense.

 

[Christi]

That's partially true (a lot of defendants often get named initially), but also a little naive, since the question of negligence (and possibly, the existence of a duty) is answered at trial by the trier of fact; whether, as a matter of law, a defendant isn't liable is another matter. And defendants rarely are dropped voluntarily by the plaintiff(s) simply because the plainitff was a fair-minded and generous fellow; if a defendant is "dropped", it is almost always because the defendant filled a motion requesting same, after going through a boatload of money in discovery and the usual pre-trial procedures. Thus, as described in another post:



Still, I suppose it's best to believe in the ultimate triumph of justice. Despite what we read, that result usually is found in Amercan courts. The complaint is that it takes so long, and costs so much, to get there.

Yes, I know exactly what you are saying. I was just trying to keep my explanation as simple as possible, while still getting my point across that being sued and actually being found liable are two different things...and that being sued can still cost an innocent party alot of grief and money...it's not nice...but it's reality.

 

[Saipanman]

You poor deluded soul.
In the rest of the world people realise they have a responsibility for their own personal saftey QUOTE]

You're kidding, right? The only country ensuring the personal safety of the rest of the world is the US of A. Unless I'm forgetting about all of New Zealand's vast fleet of aircraft carriers and submarines...Do they even exist?

Getting back to the point of the thread... perhaps if you look at it this way: As an attorney I've read many people spouting off here about what the law is or isn't. Some are correct; some are pretty off base. If you people, whom I don't know, rely on the bad advice to your detriment, does that make me liable for legal malpractice because I didn't warn you or help you out or steer you correctly?

Absolutley not. I have NO DUTY to any of you. None of you have asked me anything, and even if you did, I haven't offered any legal advice to you.

I am also a Scuba Instructor. If someone here gives you bad advice, and I don't correct it after having read the thread, can you then come and sue me? Again, NO DUTY.

So, if I'm on a boat, diving for fun, and you don't know I'm a DM (or instructor), and I'm not your buddy, and you do something stupid, is it my fault? Do you think DMs are held to a higher standard of care than attorneys?

 

[RonFrank]

Not carrying the card doens't make you NOT who you are See above.

Since the rescue diver card is a non-professional level, no exposure there anyway...particularly when you take into account that someone can become a "Rescue diver" with less than 20 logged dives.

If you are wealthy, and anywhere NEAR the accident, count on the Lawyers naming you in the lawsuit!!

Unfortunately when it comes to personal injury and liability in the USA, if one has assets worth taking, and there is ANY possibility of legal rewards, count on the PI lawyers going after you.

IMO, if you have a net worth of 5Million or more, and you are OW certified on a boat where a diver dies, plan on getting named in the lawsuit!!!

Fortunately I have NOTHING to worry about!!

 

[RonFrank]

we have a good samaritan law in effect in FLorida as well, as do many states

it's supposed to encourage people helping out without fear of litigation, even
doctors and medical personnel who are not on duty at a medical facility
at the time the emergency happens (i.e. still holds medical personnel liable
for on-duty medical malpractice type things except under certain
circumstances)

Florida Statute 768.13

Based on what I understand of the law as practiced, it has little to do with justice, right or wrong, but only the law and what can be argued...

So in your opinion, does this LAW prevent litigation? I ask because based on my reading, it does not....

I'm not trying to scare anyone away from helping someone in need, but in the US, these types of laws do NOT guarentee much protection.

The one thing I HATE about our legal system is that it's so grey, and right/wrong are generally not.

 

[Christi]

If you are wealthy, and anywhere NEAR the accident, count on the Lawyers naming you in the lawsuit!!

Unfortunately when it comes to personal injury and liability in the USA, if one has assets worth taking, and there is ANY possibility of legal rewards, count on the PI lawyers going after you.

IMO, if you have a net worth of 5Million or more, and you are OW certified on a boat where a diver dies, plan on getting named in the lawsuit!!!

Fortunately I have NOTHING to worry about!!

A Rescue diver has no duty of care to the other divers...this is not a professional level. Just like any other certified diver, he/she is reponsible for themselves not for other divers. So that wold REALLY be stretching it.

Furthermore, just because someone who is wealthy happens to be on a dive boat, that doesn't mean you are an automatic target. Wealth is all relative anyway right? With your logic, it could be argued that all divers are wealthy, therefore the PI attorney would be going after every diver on the boat...which is absurd. The only people that could questionably have a duty of care would be the injured divers buddy, the boat crew, professionals that happen to be on board (again this is a very broad paintbrush), and/or anyone who may have directly caused the accident.

It doesn't do anyone any good to go after someone solely based on their financial status...unless there is a question of liability with that party.

 

[Christi]

The one thing I HATE about our legal system is that it's so grey, and right/wrong are generally not.

Of course it's grey...name one legal system in the world that's not. Laws are written to be interpreted...and we all know that everyone has different interpretations of everything!

 

[ClassAction]

You poor deluded soul.
In the rest of the world people realise they have a responsibility for their own personal saftey and to use a little common sense in day to day life.
What you are saying is that people in the US of A can forget about taking personal responsibility and just sue the arse off some one else if they injure themselves...

Of course that's not what I'm saying. Our system doesn't just allow anyone to sue for any old reason. One's personal responsibility is taken into account and often provides a basis for dismissing the suit. It's just that our system of crushing liability encourages potential defendants to think twice about safety. So (referring to my original post) the operator of the pool might add a lifeguard on a crowded day, or might post another at the diving board, etc. I can't imagine that you see this as such a bad thing. Does our system sometimes reward the plaintiff who should have been "taking personal responsibility"? Yes, unfortunately. But the pro's (enhanced safety) still outweigh the cons. And we must be doing something right since we're so successful, right?

 

[punisher]

welcome to american justice....oh yeah, its blind...used to be by the people for the people....now its by the rich and lawyers, for the rich and lawyers