RBachman
Contributor
scubatoys:
Larry,
Does this same policy restrict you from selling Scubaro via telephone orders?
Thanks
Online Dive Vendors/Dealers
- Thread starter yukoneer
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Larry,
Does this same policy restrict you from selling Scubaro via telephone orders?
Thanks
RichLockyer
Guest
Until the moment you are about to walk out.jagfish:
If the moment you are about to buy comes before the moment you are about to walk out, you can do better.
RichLockyer:
It's a tough game to play...
Everybody....
I started this thread to simply ask for more scuba vendors that are online so that I can continue my researching and comparsion of products/services/service.
This has turned into an ugly debate that I initially want no part of. All of you must realize, nowadays - the customer will do whatever to have the better deal. The shop that can meet to the customer's needs will win out in the end - whether if bought local or online. Whether if the product purchased by the customer is not covered by warranty is the customer's decision - it is their mistake if they expect every product to be covered by warranties. Scuba is a life-threatening hobby and people should research extensively about the products that are available. After researching for a short time, it should become obvious of which manufacturers do not allow on-line sales. If the person is seriously considering buying something online, there is no excuse for not knowing about the warranty situation if the customer is unaware of warranty issues, I wont accept that as an excuse. The customer may ignore the warranty issue, because it's what the customer wants.
Some say that it's hurting the LDS. Guess what, America is a country of opportunity. The LDS should have the capabilities to keep up to the trends of what is going on with the customers. A LDS has the opportunities nowadays and can easily set up an online service and from there, may improve dramatically in their sales if the service/price is good. LDS that do not evolve as time goes by will be the ones that suffer the most.
However, in light of this situation, I found an excellent online source that is also an actual LDS - with excellent service and also ensuring that my stuff has manufacturers warranty. That vendor will also get referrals from me in the future from scuba buddies (in fact, they have one big order coming up soon too from a dear friend!). I couldnt be happier than what I have gotten for a good deal.
I just bought:
Sherwood Wisdom w/ QD & Compass
Sherwood Avid BCD
Cressi Ellipse Regulator
Cressi Ellipse Octo
2-piece 7mm wetsuit
Hydrasport Fusiler Knife
and a few odd things thrown in for free.
Now, have a good day everyone!
I started this thread to simply ask for more scuba vendors that are online so that I can continue my researching and comparsion of products/services/service.
This has turned into an ugly debate that I initially want no part of. All of you must realize, nowadays - the customer will do whatever to have the better deal. The shop that can meet to the customer's needs will win out in the end - whether if bought local or online. Whether if the product purchased by the customer is not covered by warranty is the customer's decision - it is their mistake if they expect every product to be covered by warranties. Scuba is a life-threatening hobby and people should research extensively about the products that are available. After researching for a short time, it should become obvious of which manufacturers do not allow on-line sales. If the person is seriously considering buying something online, there is no excuse for not knowing about the warranty situation if the customer is unaware of warranty issues, I wont accept that as an excuse. The customer may ignore the warranty issue, because it's what the customer wants.
Some say that it's hurting the LDS. Guess what, America is a country of opportunity. The LDS should have the capabilities to keep up to the trends of what is going on with the customers. A LDS has the opportunities nowadays and can easily set up an online service and from there, may improve dramatically in their sales if the service/price is good. LDS that do not evolve as time goes by will be the ones that suffer the most.
However, in light of this situation, I found an excellent online source that is also an actual LDS - with excellent service and also ensuring that my stuff has manufacturers warranty. That vendor will also get referrals from me in the future from scuba buddies (in fact, they have one big order coming up soon too from a dear friend!). I couldnt be happier than what I have gotten for a good deal.
I just bought:
Sherwood Wisdom w/ QD & Compass
Sherwood Avid BCD
Cressi Ellipse Regulator
Cressi Ellipse Octo
2-piece 7mm wetsuit
Hydrasport Fusiler Knife
and a few odd things thrown in for free.
Now, have a good day everyone!
ScubaToys, You seem to play fair with the online sales, meaning you offer what is available to you at a fair market value. why is it leisure pro, absolutescubadivingequipment, are able to get away with the Scuba Pro "net sales"? When Scuba Pro does not allow that? And both seem to be here in the states?
yukoneer:
You'll probalby learn, as I did, that when you post a question, it will often take on a life of its own, possibly leading into a different direction that might be more interesting or pertanent(sp?) to the membership at large. You can see that the thread has been rated as 5 stars, so it was interesting to someone.
Hopefully, in 8 pages of responses, you got some that were helpful to you along the way...
Welcome to the board and enjoy your new gear...
JAG
MVillanueva
Guest
Phil at Divesports.com has written an article with some relevance to this thread
http://divesports.com/retailrestrictions.htm
http://divesports.com/retailrestrictions.htm
ScubaCrossing:
Good question. And a couple of answers. One is - you can question the authenticity of products. There was a famous case where LP was getting knock offs of ScubaPro Jackets - complete with counterfeit logo tags, and passing them off as actually ScubaPro jackets. A bad inflator caused some problems, and the customer sent it to scubapro who examined and determined it was not their jacket. LP settled out of court for an undisclosed amount, and claimed "We didn't know the distributor was not selling legit goods..." Yea... right.
You see the same thing with Jeans, T shirts, you name it - it's a common international practice - so I guess why any different in the Scuba Business.
Ok, not to say all their stuff is copies - some actually comes from the factory. Scuba Pro while sorta' here in the states, most of the products are made in Italy - and they have distribution all over the world. All the distributors have contracts with ScubaPro HQ that say they cannot ship into countries outside their territory... Problem is - this is relatively new. Because of the whole European political scene, Euro dollars, international trade, etc, it was questioned whether restrictions like that were legal to a European distributor.
It went to a European court, and in the last year, Scubapro won the case - and can restrict a distributor from selling outside their territory, even in Europe.
So what LP was doing, is contacting European distributors and saying, "Tell you what... next time you order ScubaPro stuff - get an extra 100 of these and 300 of these, and we'll leave a bag of money on your doorstep..."
Well, it didn't take scubapro long to figure out where the product was coming from - they buy a few regs - check the serial numbers, and confront the distributor.. problem in the past is it was not clear if it was legal to cut them off... now it is... and they have cut off several European distributors.
You can tell that's how LP gets their stuff - here is a blurb from their page... to see it, just click on the Leisure pro ad above, then on FAQ, then on Warranty and you'll see this:
Warranty Information
We are not authorized dealers of some Manufacturers, and some of the products may not be accompanied by the manufactures Warranty valid in the United States and/or with an english manual
That is known as bootlegging, or gray market goods. Now what is the end result to the consumer besides no manual in English? Well, everyone on the board knows that means you do not get the free parts for life thing - and a battery change in the computer will cost you $250 instead of being free... And if you have a problem, you have to send it back to LP since the serial number will not show up as a legit unit in the states...
Well also, every major manufacturer has had a recall at some time or another, Atomic, Aeris, ScubaPro, Genesis, Sherwood, Mares, Dacor... you name it - they've had a recall. That is all figured by serial number of product. Let's say they discover the springs that went into regs from serial number 1000 to 2000 are failing after 6 months... better contact all the owners, tell them to stop using the regs, and send authorized dealers new springs and tell them to do the service at no charge to their customers who have affected regs...
Problem is, the recall is actually larger in scope - it covers up to serial number 3000 - but 2000 - 3000 numbered units were never sold in the US. They were sold in Belgium. So Belgium dealers are looking for units from 2000 - 3000, US dealers from 1000 - 2000. And your bootlegged unit is serial number 2122... oops.
So you never get notified. You are no where in the ScubaPro database, because your product slid into the US under the back door - not through the US distributor.
Well, what if you read on a web page somewhere that your unit is affected, and you contact ScubaPro here in the states... they tell you.. Sorry, we did not sell that unit - never touched it.... not ours. Contact the person you bought it from, or here you go... ship it to Belgium... they were the distributor for that one... Or we'll be glad to fix it up - you can take it to one of our dealers, and they be happy to sell you the part and do the service for 3 gillion dollars...
So Scubapro is doing everything in their power to cut off the supply of goods - and they are being very effective. 6 months ago, if you went to LP's site, and did a search for Scubapro, you'd end up with 5 pages of results... today... less than one full page. No more titanium regs, only 1 BC, etc. With the supply cut off - it's just a matter of time until they have no product left... which leaves the consumer who buys a product in a little problem. They way LP handles warranty situations, is send a new one... but if they don't have any new ones, and no supply to parts, what then??
Actually ScubaPro has just gone through the trouble of adding serial numbers to their Fins! Just so they can help cut off the bootleg companies.
You can see that an item like the mk25/S600 - LP is selling for about $400 and change when you add in their shipping charges, and with the rebate, an authorized dealer is selling it for $450... What's the point in getting it without warranty?? I guess to some that $50 is that important..
Do I wish ScubaPro would let us sell on line?? Sure, but I won't jeopardize my dealerships, or warranty to our customers to do it before they sanction it.
Hope that helps!
RBachman:
Yes... Must be over the counter.
The Kraken
He Who Glows in the Dark Waters (ADVISOR)
ScubaBoard Supporter
Scuba Instructor
Divemaster
Scubatoys Larry wrote:
"That scared the daylights out of me! If other shops figured out you had to have good stock, be knowledgable about your products, sell the customer what they need instead of what you want so sell, and offer this all at a fair price... boy if some other shop got a hold of that trade secret... It could mean my downfall!"
Larry, I love it !!!!
"That scared the daylights out of me! If other shops figured out you had to have good stock, be knowledgable about your products, sell the customer what they need instead of what you want so sell, and offer this all at a fair price... boy if some other shop got a hold of that trade secret... It could mean my downfall!"
Larry, I love it !!!!
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