You can't have a fast track class unless you gut the in water portion as well.
Open Water Fast Track
- Thread starter Suzana
- Start date
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How long have they been the biggest? Long before the advent of multi-media instructional tools.
And please Walter, you know that agency is not the only one that puts out "fast track" products or classes via LDS or instructors that care more about volume than quality, lets be clear about that.
"How long have they been the biggest?"
They became the biggest after they started lowering their standards and producing a low quality class that gets people diving faster.
As for other agencies cutting standards, I know NAUI has recently started to follow suit, but still has a lot of meat to trim out of their standards before there's much of a comparison. I haven't seen that trend in the Y and I'm not really familiar with other agencies' standards.
"Long before the advent of multi-media instructional tools."
I don't believe I mentioned that, but at any rate it's not true. Video has been around since NAUI was the biggest.
"that agency is not the only one that puts out "fast track" products or classes via LDS or instructors that care more about volume than quality"
I don't know that, but I'll agree it's likely.
They became the biggest after they started lowering their standards and producing a low quality class that gets people diving faster.
As for other agencies cutting standards, I know NAUI has recently started to follow suit, but still has a lot of meat to trim out of their standards before there's much of a comparison. I haven't seen that trend in the Y and I'm not really familiar with other agencies' standards.
"Long before the advent of multi-media instructional tools."
I don't believe I mentioned that, but at any rate it's not true. Video has been around since NAUI was the biggest.
"that agency is not the only one that puts out "fast track" products or classes via LDS or instructors that care more about volume than quality"
I don't know that, but I'll agree it's likely.
Ah, as was pointed out above, we need a definition of fast track. I was ASSuming that the crux of the issue was learning in classroom vs. video/reading the book at home.
If a 'fast track' class includes shortening the in-water sessions, then that is a horse of a different color.
Otter
Without gutting the in water portion of the class, and only eliminating the classroom portion, you have a course that's 2 nights per week for 4 weeks instead of 3 nights per week.
Would anyone consider that fast track?
Would anyone consider that fast track?
cornfed
Mindless lemming
Mike, I understand your point and tend to agree with it. However I still don't see what's wrong with having students do the academic portion on their own.
Drew
Just curious, how long ago was NAUI the biggest?
"you have a course that's 2 nights per week for 4 weeks instead of 3 nights per week. Would anyone consider that fast track?"
How long per night? How many hours total? What student to instructor ratio? How many of the hours spent on logistics and not training?
Tough one to answer Walter w/o all the details.
Well, that raised a few opinions then...
The holiday is 15 days, we will probably spend between 7-9 days diving.
My own opinion is that doing the referral course at home is the best option, it's how I did it myself.
The thing is that the holiday is in Thailand, meaning there is a BIG difference in price compared to any UK dive centre. That's why I wanted to look into doing it this way.
I think you are right - perhaps calling it 'fast track' is wrong. In fact you might well end up spending MORE time studying at home, then you would doing the whole course in the average of 4 days (as usually is the case on holidays) or split over several nights during a couple of weeks if you do it in the UK. But I guess the question is if it's 'quality time'? and the answer is probably personal, depending on what type of learner you are.
Personally I think I would be happy to study things like dive tables and the 'plain facts' at home - providing the CD, Video, Books etc are of good quality. Are they? I guess if she doesn't understand something she can just ask when she gets there. I also assume that doing it this way should NOT mean less time in the water?
I will probably try and persuade her to do the referral at home after all, and if she really can't afford it I guess I will contact a good dive centre there and see what they say about it - and confirm that they don't 'fast track' any of the practical sessions.
Many thanks for all the opinions.
Suzana
The holiday is 15 days, we will probably spend between 7-9 days diving.
My own opinion is that doing the referral course at home is the best option, it's how I did it myself.
The thing is that the holiday is in Thailand, meaning there is a BIG difference in price compared to any UK dive centre. That's why I wanted to look into doing it this way.
I think you are right - perhaps calling it 'fast track' is wrong. In fact you might well end up spending MORE time studying at home, then you would doing the whole course in the average of 4 days (as usually is the case on holidays) or split over several nights during a couple of weeks if you do it in the UK. But I guess the question is if it's 'quality time'? and the answer is probably personal, depending on what type of learner you are.
Personally I think I would be happy to study things like dive tables and the 'plain facts' at home - providing the CD, Video, Books etc are of good quality. Are they? I guess if she doesn't understand something she can just ask when she gets there. I also assume that doing it this way should NOT mean less time in the water?
I will probably try and persuade her to do the referral at home after all, and if she really can't afford it I guess I will contact a good dive centre there and see what they say about it - and confirm that they don't 'fast track' any of the practical sessions.
Many thanks for all the opinions.
Suzana
fins wake
Guest
This could be a classic on many future lists ...
:rolling:
Yup.
Strange definition. Not sure this is quite correct. And that's putting it politely ...
Ah, now I get it! It's PADI-bashing time ... funny, isn't there a separate list on this board for agency-bashing, rubbish-throwing and other useless verbiage? :tease:
Ah, truly PADI-bashing time. I like NAUI but I haven't seen much of a difference in the water and I honestly cannot tell from seeing an unknown diver if he or she has trained with PADI, SSI, NAUI, SSDF, BSAC, the armed forces or with Jacques Cousteau himself ...
Then again, I believe, to paraphrase the good Dr King, that one should not judge the man on the colour of his c-card or on the long hose around his neck ... :devious:
I have been teaching Naui since '82 and at that time we were using video. The instructor was in the room and and paying attention to the students. The video was an early attempt to make sure there were no omissions during the class. If there were no questions at the end of the tape then it was accepted that no one was paying attention rather than everyone had comprehension of the material.
The horror story that I often hear today is that a student watches the video at home, takes the test in the LDS and never discusses the material from any section with a live (knowledgable) person. I've dived with some of these folks, and I am here to tell you that you instructors certifing students like this cannot pass my minimum standard which is whether I would let my child/wife/loved one be taught by you, not in a million years!
I understand the business case, I just don't agree.
The horror story that I often hear today is that a student watches the video at home, takes the test in the LDS and never discusses the material from any section with a live (knowledgable) person. I've dived with some of these folks, and I am here to tell you that you instructors certifing students like this cannot pass my minimum standard which is whether I would let my child/wife/loved one be taught by you, not in a million years!
I understand the business case, I just don't agree.
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