Package opinion??

[Kingpatzer]

Tundraotto -- please chill . .. you are getting really really upset because people aren't telling you what you want to hear -- which we understand is "is this package deal a good one and if not, what should I buy different?"

But you don't seem to understand that you're asking the wrong question. Or at least, you're asking a question that only new divers who don't have the experience frame of reference to understand the answer ask.

The answer to most gear questions in scuba is "it depends." It depends on your expectations, experience level, dive schedule, other gear choices, and on and on and on. There is no "right" answer or "wrong" answer. There are merely varying shades from acceptable to not acceptable.

Most of the people answering your question have been where you are -- new divers who are really anxious to go buy gear. And most, if you'll listen to them, discovered that what they had purchased was the wrong thing FOR THEM.

See, here's the thing - there are very very few scuba manufacturers out there who make legitimately crappy gear -- doing so is cost prohibitive as the law suits will eventually come if you make real crap. All the gear that's out there is pretty much interchangeable with about a half-dozen or more equivalent products at the same price points. But they all have subtle differences that matter the more experience one gets under the belt -- but they matter to different people in differing degrees.

It's not like one company's 7mm neoprene is really superior to another company's 7mm neoprene; or, someone out there has the very best high pressure hose on the market. It all pretty much is what it is. But you might need a 24" hose and I might really prefere a 22" hose, and someone else might like 23 1/2".

You might want a swivel, I might not, and some third person might want one but not think it's worth the money to them.

People aren't being mean to you. But you're too busy being offended to hear what's being said. Relax and realize no one is questioning your intelligence, your desire to dive, your skill, or anything about you. We are answering the question you asked -- and the only "right" answer to that question as written is "Tundraotto, you're asking the wrong question."

And after you've been diving for a few years, you'll see someone come to this board, ask the very same question you just asked, and you'll find yourself writing the same answer people are trying to give you now . . .

 

[halocline]

thanks all - the help is appreciated. I expected to get chastized too - but jeesh - its not like its coming out of your wallet so what the heck.....
like said i appreciate all the comments and time all the same!

Since you're dying to spend money RIGHT NOW, tell you what. Here's my best advice on what to get, and please keep my username handy so you can send me a PM to sell this gear to me at half price after you realize you bought too much too soon.

1. A Deep sea supply or oxycheq single tank rig for your BC; I'm a medium plate, and I would need a 20lb or so wing. Please get the aluminum or kydex plate, cause I already have a steel plate.

2. Get the scubapro reg, make sure it's the G250V 2nd stage, and consider a MK17 rather than the MK25. I already own four SP piston 1st stages.

3. Get a nice small wrist computer; I've always wanted to try the Mares nemo, but I'd be happy with a suunto mosquito or even the current oceanic small computer.

4. Get the XSscuba mini glass SPG; I could always use another. 24" hose, please!

5. The suunto SK7 compass is fine.

Have fun shopping!

 

[Couv]

....and don't pee in his new wetsuit.

 

[DandyDon]

....and don't pee in his new wetsuit.

There are three kinds of divers...
1-Those who pee in their wetsuits;
2-Those who lie about it; and
3-Those who have to take their suits off in the water and rinse. :11:

 

[Couv]

There are three kinds of divers...
1-Those who pee in their wetsuits;
2-Those who lie about it; and
3-Those who have to take their suits off in the water and rinse. :11:

Too true DD, but the OP started this thread with expectations of contracting a disease. I just don't want Mattboy to suffer when he gets his gently used equipment.

 

[kidspot]

I'm one who bought all his gear before class. 3years and 600 dives later I'm still diving the same kit (though I have bought and use several other rigs too) I built my own set of gear (no package) based upon 6 months of research here on Scubaboard and the only piece of gear I've been less than ecstatic about is my BC (I got a Diverite, but prefer others now ... still good equipment and I still use it for work dives mostly) the only piece of gear I "had" to replace was my wetsuit (which officially died when I cut it in half last week and now only use the top as a "shirt" for diving in)

Along the road to picking my gear I asked, read, changed my mind and researched. Price was very important to me (I'm never planning on being wealthy) but more important was versatility as I did not know what kind of diving I'd be getting into.

Here are the pieces of gear I originally chose, trained in and still dive:

Fins: ScubaPro Jet fins (Original pair died and were replaced under warranty) Versatile fins
BC: DiveRite SS Backplate & Venture wing - Versatile BC, add features you want, leave off the ones you don't.
1st stage Reg: DiveRite DIN - decided on this after reading an aquarium review about 1000+ dives between servicing. Figured it should last awhile ... and it has, I now have 2 of them on my doubles rig.
2nd stage Primary: Kirby Morgan Superflow - it's a commercial reg designed for use at extreme depths (tested to 1200fsw) figured it should be good enough for my 100fsw reef dives. Still my favorite reg (I also own several other brands now) and it is my primary reg on my doubles... Trimix class starts Tuesday
2nd stage Backup: DiveRite adjustable 2nd stage - good reliable reg that was inexpensive ... it's still my backup on my singles rig (Got a Scubapro 250 for my doubles backup reg)
Computer: Chose the Mares M1 (predecessor to the M2) and REALLY like it ... it's now part of my tech rig and I liked it enough that when I lost it I got an M2 (later found my M1)
Mask: I just visited all the local shops till I found an Rx mask that fit ... pretty well. Still have not found one that fits better with an Rx.
Wetsuit: .5 mil wetsuit ... it was more a dive skin than wetsuit, but it's been comfortable. I do have a 5 mil and recently sold my drysuit (nice suit, just want something else) but my original wetsuit is what I wear when I work on the boat.
Boots: While they have worn out, I still wear my first pair of boots when shore diving as I have not found a pair I like better (unfortunately the company is out of business )
SPG: a basic brass and glass spg ... it died due to user negligence (don't use glass gauges to bang tank for buddies attention ... ) but they are only $50 at my lds and I really like 'em so I bought the same thing again.

Total initial cost was around $700 IIR

Should you buy the same gear as me? Probably not ... because we are different people, but I just wanted to toss in how happy I've been with my original gear choices... if researched properly it doesn't have to be a bad move. (though it frequently is) I was very fortunate to have members of Scubaboard turn me away from some of my first gear choices that I thought I'd like (like that silly rubber ducky style Octo and a BC I would have been very unhappy with)

My Suggestion... decide if a particular philosophy, style or type of diving interests you. Use your imagination to think about what you might find interesting down the road. Talk and ask questions of people doing that type of diving. Then buy gear that you won't easily outgrow (by doing dives beyond the safety limits of that type of gear) Also get gear that will compliment other types of diving that might intrigue you (even if it may be way off in the future)

Specific to your gear choices, they are all decent pieces of kit. Here would be my comments on them individually:

Scubatoys: One of, if not the best dive shops represented online. They have a reputation for standing behind their sales 150% (in other words, good choice) There are a couple of other online shops represented here on the board that I would put in the same category including http://www.deepseasupply.com and Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment - 3 of the best, and between them you can find just about anything you want.

Mares Sport Package: Mares makes good products in general, so nice brand

Mares Sport AT BCD: Many divers find they prefer a back inflate over the jacket style ... so you may outgrow this one quickly. Also I question the Air Trim, while it may prove in time to be a great product, at the moment it is untested and not necessary. Traditional venting mechanisms are reliable and quickly become second nature. So I call, solution in search of a problem.

Mares Abyss 22: If you are getting your own tanks (which it sounds like) I'd stick with a DIN regulator and use an adapter when you don't have your own tanks. Definitely go with the 22 over the 12, the routing of the ports is much more convenient IMHO. For the second stage I would go with an adjustable 2nd stage, as it will allow you to detune the reg for specific conditions (surf entries, scootering, swimming into current etc.) when free-flows are common. Lots of people are very happy with the Abyss though - so not a bad decision.

Mares Brigade Viper Octo: This depends more upon how you choose to dive than anything else. For me an adjustable second stage on my backup (octo) is VERY important as when I scooter a non-adjustable WILL freeflow. You also need to decide where you will be keeping your octo or backup. 3 basic approaches. 1) Octo stored where easily accesible (ie on keeper in sight) 2) Backup around neck on necklace (donating the regulator you normally breathe off of) 3) Octo stored, but you donate what you breathe and then find the octo and use it yourself in an OOA emergency. The major differences with these is that when you donate what you are breathing, that hose needs to be long enough to donate (normally at least 36" long) if you donate the stored octo you need the longer hose to be on it instead. (might do a search on bungeed backups and long hose configurations if you've not come across that yet http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/127805-long-longhose-question.html)

Mares MC2 RGBM Console: The M2 is a great computer, a few folks don't like the I.R.I.S. computer interface (mine works fine) - I like the computer because it's "versatile" depth rated to 500fsw, AAA batteries are easy to change, always on Backlight option for night dives, air, nitrox or gauge mode... just a great all around computer - very conservative in it's algorithm, which I don't mind, though some don't like. Consoles ... I don't like them (just so you know my bias up front) I like my depth gauge in front of me frequently, not having to unclip a console (you are going to keep it from dangling in the mud and reef right?) every time I want to check my depth.

Mares M2 Nitrox Wrist Computer: Good choice of computer, wrist mountable is nice because you can keep your depth and time in sight the entire dive easily. The only downside is that it's one more piece of gear which can get left in the car or at home (both of which I've done ... thankfully I had a backup gauge) You can also replace the rubber wrist strap with bungee on the M2 Aloha Shore Divers

Tusa SCA 240 SPG: If I was going to go with a small plastic SPG this would be a good one, however I prefer glass as they don't scratch (they do however break when struck against metal objects - lol)


MY ALTERNATE HODGEPODGE PACKAGE (more expensive)

force fin "slim fins": I'm a Jet fin fan ... we are obligated by contract to dislike Force Fins j/k - honestly my buddies who dive Force fins love 'em ... me I like my stiff jets. Force fins are expensive, so keep that in mind.

scubapro crystal VY single window mask: Does it fit well? If so it's a good choice If you are going to be spearfishing many hunters prefer a black skirt so they don't get glare from the sides when looking in holes. A clear skirt however lets you see movement to your periphery (not clearly though) like a buddy trying to get your attention, which can be nice.

scubapro mk25/g250hp regulator: Good solid regulator - Used in a wide variety of environments and has a long standing reputation for reliability. (the 250V is just the 2008 version of the 250HP)

steel 130 tank: I would love to have a couple of these - lots of air! just remember they are heavy too - You may find you prefer having more than one. I bought AL80's simply because I could turn them into stage bottles later or double them up ... eventually I'll probably pick up a couple/few HP130's though.

tusa spg: Same as above ... compare to Highland Millworks Brass and Glass SPG Module (very nice gauge) also search the hot deals section of Scubaboard as they go on sale there at good prices.

zeagle tech bcd: Zeagle has a reputation for standing behind their products and are well represented here on the board too. However I would go with the Ranger over the Tech because the tech has too much lift IMHO. Especially for a new diver I believe having a lower lift capacity is important, as you have less that can go wrong (imagine having a leaky valve on a 65# lift BC vs. one that only has 30# of lift...) Even for tech diving 40# is enough for doubles and a couple of stage bottles... 55# of lift is used by folks with large steel doubles and multiple stage bottles... you're just getting started, so 30-40# of lift is PLENTY (somewhere in that range depending on what kind of exposure suit etc..) Of course I would recommend a BP/wing system over the tech or the Ranger as you can just put the bladder of your choice on it... (again I'm biased as I like Backplates and Wings ) check out http://www.deepseasupply.com or some of the others. (I suggest them as Tobin will personally help you get what you need, and not more or less)

suunto gekko: Suunto makes good gauges, but in this case I'd either spring for a higher end model, or stick with the Mares M2 wrist gauge... less expensive and more versatile

suunto sk7 compass: probably the most popular compass out there... good choice... course it's also "just" a compass ... and you won't go wrong with other brands either ... it either points to magnetic north or it doesn't


Exposure suit: Might as well start out dry if you have the money for it ... and at the moment the Whites Fusion is getting VERY high marks... though there are other good brands out there too...

Hope that helps,

Aloha, Tim

 

[Colliam7]

Five thoughts: 1. While much can be said for not buying gear until after certification, or renting to find out what you might like or dislike, there is also nothing wrong with taking the plunge early. You may learn more from buying something and using it a lot, than by renting something one time that you may instantly dislike, or even like. Plus, you really can't rent a large variety of gear to try out, anyway. Your thoughts about control and maintenance make sense long term. Having said that, since you mention selling items on eBay, I would not discourage you from buying certain selected items (see 3., below) on eBay, if money is a factor. 2. Your 'hodgepodge' package is very reasonable, maybe more so than the Mares package, based on what is in it. You've gotten a lot of feedback on the individual items, and I won't attempt to comment on all. I certainly won't chastise you for your thinking, by the way. Personally, I applaud you for wanting to get into diving as seriously as you appear to be doing. 3. I wonder about the Zeagle Tech. It is a great BC, back-inflate, well made, comfortable, etc. But, it may be overkill. There is a lot of material in the Tech, and it will be positively buoyant. I don't think you will really need 60+ pounds of lift. If you get to a point where you need that much lift (diving double steels, carrying deco bottles, etc.) you will probably want a BP/W anyway. If you are already thinking back-inflate, at least consider a BP/W - simple, stainless steel plate, web harness, modest wing (30# or so). If you aren't sure about a new BC yet, you could even buy a used Tech (or its slightly less muscular relative, the Ranger) on eBay for a lot less money than a new one, and try it out. 4. Several posters have questioned the steel 130, or mentioned you should be thinking 'tanks', or suggested that buying a tank early in your diving is unnecessary. Yes, a tank is usually the last major purchase. And, if you are a serious diver, you will want more than one. The HP steel 130 is a great tank. It may not necessarily be ideal for someone who is 5' 3" and weighs 105 lbs. But, for a medium build diver (5"10 and 165), with reasonable strength, it is a fine tank. I personally prefer HP steels over single ALs, for gas supply and buoyancy characteristics. And, you generally cannot rent those kind of tanks. 5. Finally, as others have suggested, whatever you buy now will probably be tweaked a bit over time. One poster commented that SB folks may not know enough about your diving style to offer informed comment. But, you don't either, yet. You are just getting started, and what you buy now may or may not fit your needs in two years, which is absolutely OK. Everyone has to start someplace, so get some gear and go diving.

 

[Gale68]

You know, even if they're not being "mean," some folks here are being pretty snarky towards this guy, with their snide remarks about "yeah, go ahead and buy all this stuff and then sell it to me cheap." Granted, it may be unwise to buy all your gear before you're even certified, but the sarcasm is a little grating. Can't we make our point without being insulting?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You obviously have not been around here long to enough to see all the threads on what gear do I buy or what do you think of this?

 

[PerroneFord]

*sigh*

When I got certified in 1994, I bought the following:

US Divers Maui Mask
US Divers Dry Snorkel
Aqualung Blades (fins)
Oceanic Delta regulator
Zeagle BC

I sold the BC 2 years later with less than 10 dives on it.
I sold the fins last week with less than a dozen dives on them
I still have everything else.

I got out of diving for many years. But over those years I learned more about the diving I wanted to do. Primarily wreck diving, and maybe cave diving. I paid attention to the gear. I looked at the training.

When I got back into diving a few years ago, I bought from a very specific shopping list, and in a very specific order.

Backplate and wings
3 AL80 tanks (one as ocean doubles)
Jetfins
Dive Rite regs
etc.

I bought gear that would serve me well for cave and wreck diving, and anything else I could dream up. There were no packages. It was all "a la carte". But I was making decisions based on asking the right people the right questions. Questions it took months, and in some cases, years, to research.

I have not had to re-buy a single piece of gear. Nor have I made any "purchasing mistakes" since getting back into SCUBA. The whole DIR deal creates a very succinct shopping list that avoids many errors for those interested in the type of diving I am.

As a new diver, probably the best questions to ask are, "what is my ultimate goal in diving", and "can I afford to buy gear now that will help me reach that goal?" By purchasing gear that will grow with you, and stay viable as you go through diving, you can eliminate the pain of buying the wrong things. My gear will let me jump in tropical water or under ice. It's great for tooling around in a spring, or 5,000ft back in a cave. I bought gear SPECIFICALLY that would not limit me as I moved forward, and the lovely thing, is that it didn't penalize me at all as I was just getting started.

That's how I'd tell a new diver to do it, if they'd listen.