Padi Master Scuba Diver?

[Lead_carrier]

Take the NAUI Master Scuba diver course. It is actually a class. One of the more difficult courses that I've run into. Excellent prerequiste to some of the classes Mike was talking about.

 

[2 Bar]

I understand and agree with all of you about more money, and MSD being a card and not a course. But I see it's place in the world for the non pro diver, and not for beating one's chest or patting oneself on the back. (As a side note, we should all pat ourselves on the back after completing a course or advancing our experience).

As soon as a diver is Open Water Certified, he/she could immediatley enter (and is always encouraged to enter) the Advanced Open Water course. A friend of mine was just certified at a quarry, and his first five subsequent dives in Cozumel were for his Advanced certification. While he is still fine tuning his buoyancy skills, tweaking his weighting, learning how to use his computer, and feeling comfortable in the water his cert will be respected, based on the arguments I have read so far. Is he really advanced? Obviously no. Most OW divers are more advanced than that.

Here's where I see MSD's relevance. Since AOW divers do 5 specialty dives and receive a certification that seems to be respected, what is wrong with being recognized for completing the whole course for each of those specialties? Especially if one has no interest in going professional down the road?

Maybe the term "Master" is over the top. Maybe it should be free, since the specialty courses are paid for. But if one completes the following courses, let's say, Peak Performance Buoyancy, Underwater Navigation, Enriched Air, Deep Diver, and Wreck Diving I see nothing wrong with getting a card acknowledging you have received a good amount of training and skill sets which may advance your experience after Rescue Diver.

Maybe Master Scuba Diver should not be a "certification", since there is no specific knowledge aquired for it. But maybe it should be an automatic rank given to a diver, acknowleding all that extra training for the 5 specialty courses, where an AOW diver just does the 5 specialty dives. If you had 2 divers in front of you, one having a Rescue Diver card and one having a Master Scuba Diver card, who would you bet is the more advanced diver? I wouldn't say the card means nothing.

Does anyone respect this school of thought?

 

[matt_unique]

...

Maybe Master Scuba Diver should not be a "certification", since there is no specific knowledge aquired for it. But maybe it should be an automatic rank given to a diver, acknowleding all that extra training for the 5 specialty courses, where an AOW diver just does the 5 specialty dives. If you had 2 divers in front of you, one having a Rescue Diver card and one having a Master Scuba Diver card, who would you bet is the more advanced diver? I wouldn't say the card means nothing.

Does anyone respect this school of thought?

Phew this is an old argument. I basically agree with your train of thought. Virtually all standards for all certifications (recreational and pro) are too low in my opinion. I am most familiar with PADI and TDI as a caveat.

A certification would have the most value if there were real skills and knowledge to be demonstrated to an independent body. Similar to that of pilot training - it does not matter what flight school you go to - you have to sit with an FAA certifying pilot to get your license. If you can't demonstrate skills and knowledge to their satisfaction, you don't pass - period. This would not eliminate the idea of school favoritism because this certifying diver would have had to be trained from some agency - but it would minimize some of the problems with lax certification.

This is perhaps a bit off topic but just a thought.....it would be great if a certification level represented a "real" level of competancy and knowledge. We all know people (or have seen people) with various certifications with hugely different levels of skill regardless of the level of certification or agency.

--Matt

 

[2 Bar]

Phew this is an old argument. I basically agree with your train of thought. Virtually all standards for all certifications (recreational and pro) are too low in my opinion. I am most familiar with PADI and TDI as a caveat.

This is perhaps a bit off topic but just a thought.....it would be great if a certification level represented a "real" level of competancy and knowledge. We all know people (or have seen people) with various certifications with hugely different levels of skill regardless of the level of certification or agency.

--Matt

Thanks Matt. I never looked into Master Scuba Diver until recently, so I didn't know it was an old argument. Since, everyone on the thread before me was negative I thought that was the general view. I guess there's two sides to this arument as well.

 

[Damselfish]

If you had 2 divers in front of you, one having a Rescue Diver card and one having a Master Scuba Diver card, who would you bet is the more advanced diver? I wouldn't say the card means nothing.

I wouldn't bet. The person with the Rescue card might have done lots of specialties and simply not sent PADI more money for the card. Or they may have learned a lot more on their own. The person with the Master card may have taken a bunch of lightweight specialties just to get it. Taking specialties may or may not have taught someone anything extra. I'd say the card means little to nothing, but then a lot of the cards unfortunately don't prove much ...

 

[Scuba1231]

My diving goal is to get lots of training and experience, but to get the fewest number of cards LOL. But seriously, if you don't have intention of teaching or guiding, take some specialties that really interest you, find a mentor in your local area who is willing to dive with you, and go out and have fun. In the end, most people don't care what your card says, they just want a safe buddy.

 

[abitton]

That is a very interesting approach.

When I did my lifeguard training here in Canada, each and every Lifesaving Society class we had to take was followed by an examination that was administered by someone OTHER than the person teaching...

PS. There is only one agency in charge of lifeguard training...

Phew this is an old argument. I basically agree with your train of thought. Virtually all standards for all certifications (recreational and pro) are too low in my opinion. I am most familiar with PADI and TDI as a caveat.

A certification would have the most value if there were real skills and knowledge to be demonstrated to an independent body. Similar to that of pilot training - it does not matter what flight school you go to - you have to sit with an FAA certifying pilot to get your license. If you can't demonstrate skills and knowledge to their satisfaction, you don't pass - period. This would not eliminate the idea of school favoritism because this certifying diver would have had to be trained from some agency - but it would minimize some of the problems with lax certification.

This is perhaps a bit off topic but just a thought.....it would be great if a certification level represented a "real" level of competancy and knowledge. We all know people (or have seen people) with various certifications with hugely different levels of skill regardless of the level of certification or agency.

--Matt

 

[Cap335]

What are some additional worthwhile training opportunities where the learning/$ spent ratio is high? My interests are cold water (out of necessity), longer dives, Lake Superior wrecks and carribean drift diving.
Thoughts appreciated....

Look into a technical Wreck class in your area.

Randy

 

[matt_unique]

Thanks Matt. I never looked into Master Scuba Diver until recently, so I didn't know it was an old argument. Since, everyone on the thread before me was negative I thought that was the general view. I guess there's two sides to this arument as well.

You better believe there are two sides to this argument. Like any certification it boils down to the effort you put into it as a student and the effort invested by the instructor. Find good instructors with resumes that match your training goals. The Master Diver can be an excellent milestone in your dive education if you choose to make it so.

--Matt

 

[MEL-DC Diver]

Yeah, basically the card should come straight from PADI, gratis, once you've satisfied the requirements. It should be a summary card that identifies all of your specialties, so you don't have to carry all those individual cards that a dive op MAY require (nitrox, deep, wreck, etc.). Those details would tell the dive op if you are a 'master' fish identifier type diver (see fish identification and dive propulsion specialities), or more of a 'dive skills' type diver - you know what I mean here.

You know, I think someone mentioned in another thread that there was a golf ball recovery speciality. If you got your master cert off of crap like that, your dive buddy and and the dive op you are going out with ought to know!