PADI responded to their OW swim requirement...

[ShallowDiverDave]

There is an underlying problem that will always exist: instructors are not robots and therefore some are not absolute with guidelines. Regardless of how an instructor is trained to, for lack of a better word, instruct, lenient practices will always exist. The problem lies with the instructors in my view.

 

[Scuba Brian]

As far as PADI standards do an instructor who sees another instructor in direct violation of a standard is supposed to file a complaint with PADI. Also there is blame to be put on the course director if he does not reinforce the need to be compliant with standards during the IDC, it allows the instructor to view the standards as loose guidelines. The lds is at fault for allowing their instructors to deviate from the standards as well.
I also believe if you are to burned out or lazy to teach your students correctly you have no right to be an instructor.

 

[hlsooner]

Someone please explain how being able to tread open water for ten minutes does not equate to "swimming"? And if this is not swimming, what does it take to meet your definition of swimming? When my wife was certified by PADI two years ago, she had to tread deep water for ten minutes without stopping, not float on her back, but tread water keeping in one position with her head above water. This is no trivial task, and could be challenging for any trained swimmer who is in poor physical shape.

While I agree that anybody taking up diving should really be 100% comfortable in the water before learning to dive, how much more should a person have to demonstrate besides being able to cover distance, and keep themselves afloat.

 

[Charlie99]

Yes... but Ive seen that standard not being enforced.

Please explain.

I guess if you were to look very carefully at my swim test, it wasn't per standard because I paused a couple of times as I swam parallel to the beach to see if the instructor wanted me to continue further. While I may not actually have done a full 200 yards, I guess he was satisfied with my surf entry, swimming along just outside the shorebreak for a while, and then treading water for 10 minutes.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

...When my wife was certified by PADI two years ago, she had to tread deep water for ten minutes without stopping, not float on her back, but tread water keeping in one position with her head above water...

I find that very interesting. When I was certified (PADI, 1993), I was required to FLOAT MOTIONLESS for 10 minutes, and was not allowed to tread water.

I'm negatively buoyant, and wouldn't have passed if I hadn't cheated. If I had been allowed to tread water, or even kick a little while floating, it would have been a breeze.

If I understand it correctly, the actual PADI standard is float OR tread water for 10 minutes.

I think this is another example of instructors either not understanding the standard, or not caring about it.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh, and this is an instructor bash, not a PADI bash...

 

[Surelyshirly]

I dont think it matters if you are PADI or any other agency trained. Overhand swimming is not what you do with dive gear on. Tread water and alternate strokes of swimming on your back and side and snorkeling are the most common I use and therefore would think that they are the things I need to be comfortable with.

The distance portion is your physical ability. OUt of shape? Cant make those distances no matter how well you swim

Just MHO.

 

[fisherdvm]

Someone please explain how being able to tread open water for ten minutes does not equate to "swimming"? And if this is not swimming, what does it take to meet your definition of swimming?

I think treading water is simply able to keep your mouth and nostril above calm water. This skill is not aerobic activity.

Swimming is ability to do work (move mass, propel, kinetic energy) and for many people, mild to moderate aerobic exercise. This extra ability measure cardiac function, and function of the arms. In rough sea, the ability to do aerobic exercise and rhythmic breathing will help you at the surface... Assuming that your snorkel failed, etc. etc..

 

[fisherdvm]

Oh, and this is an instructor bash, not a PADI bash...

Yes, certainly this is not PADI bashing alone, as it is also SSI bashing.

Apparently, SSI is having the same standard as PADI, per someone who posted earlier that did SSI OW.

 

[Scuba Brian]

In my collage class i give extra credit if they can tread for 10 minutes with a 5 pound weight.

 

[Thalassamania]

There is an underlying problem that will always exist: instructors are not robots and therefore some are not absolute with guidelines. Regardless of how an instructor is trained to, for lack of a better word, instruct, lenient practices will always exist. The problem lies with the instructors in my view.

Then give them absolute guidelines that are clear to the students in the course material. Mine are 450 yds swimming in 14 mins or less prior to entry into the class, 900 yds in freediving gear in 20 mins or less prior to going on scuba, and a 350 yd skill based circuit swim in 12 mins or less prior to course completion. People can float or tread all they want on their own time.

As far as PADI standards do an instructor who sees another instructor in direct violation of a standard is supposed to file a complaint with PADI. Also there is blame to be put on the course director if he does not reinforce the need to be compliant with standards during the IDC, it allows the instructor to view the standards as loose guidelines. The lds is at fault for allowing their instructors to deviate from the standards as well.
I also believe if you are to burned out or lazy to teach your students correctly you have no right to be an instructor.

I agree with you. But is seems clear that this is a rule more honored in the breach than in the observance.

Someone please explain how being able to tread open water for ten minutes does not equate to "swimming"? And if this is not swimming, what does it take to meet your definition of swimming? When my wife was certified by PADI two years ago, she had to tread deep water for ten minutes without stopping, not float on her back, but tread water keeping in one position with her head above water. This is no trivial task, and could be challenging for any trained swimmer who is in poor physical shape.

While I agree that anybody taking up diving should really be 100% comfortable in the water before learning to dive, how much more should a person have to demonstrate besides being able to cover distance, and keep themselves afloat.

Be glad to, treading water is not swimming because when you swim you go from place to place and when you tread you stay in one place. These are two very difference concepts and if you only observe a potential student treading you have little real idea of what their actual water skill level is (which can be discerned from their style and choice of stroke) nor do you have a chance to observe what happens to them with a small degree of fatigue and stress. This is why I think it critical to observe a student on a fairly lengthy timed swim. There is an immense amount about their individual health, fitness and psychology to be learned during this and other similar exercises. If you truly believe what you say, “anybody taking up diving should really be 100% comfortable in the water before learning to dive” how can you possibly think that a 10 minute tread and 200 yd swim is “no trivial task.” I expected (and got) more than that of my son when he was 4.