PADI responded to their OW swim requirement...

[Scuba Brian]

Once again PADI standards are set as a requirement there is nothing stating you cannot add information and exceed the standards as long as you don't go beyond the scope of the class.

 

[Thalassamania]

Once again PADI standards are set as a requirement there is nothing stating you cannot add information and exceed the standards as long as you don't go beyond the scope of the class.

We know that, the question on the table is are PADI's requirements adequate and was the official PADI response adequate and appropriate.

 

[DBailey]

Then why don't they require swimming?

I guess it depends on what you consider swimming.

Taken from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/swim

swim
–verb (used without object)
1. to move in water by movements of the limbs, fins, tail, etc.
2. to float on the surface of water or some other liquid.
3. to move, rest, or be suspended in air as if swimming in water.
4. to move, glide, or go smoothly over a surface.
5. to be immersed or steeped in or overflowing or flooded with a liquid: eyes swimming with tears.
6. to be dizzy or giddy; seem to whirl: My head began to swim.

Using defintions #1 and #2 (possibily #4), one could say that the PADI students demonstrate that they can "swim" at least twice during the water skills portion.

 

[Thalassamania]

I prefer number 6.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

I think treading water is simply able to keep your mouth and nostril above calm water. This skill is not aerobic activity.

If you happen to be naturally negative (buoyancy, not attitude), then 10 minutes in deep water is aerobic.

I'm obsessing on this point just in case there are instructors reading this who, like the one I had, are either ignorant of their agencies standards or for some reason choose to modify it... Maybe I can save some future divers some stress.

OK, so I have a negative attitude, as well. But that's another thread...

 

[hlsooner]

We know that, the question on the table is are PADI's requirements adequate and was the official PADI response adequate and appropriate.

At last we get to the real question here: this is not about what we would all like to see new divers be able to demonstrate, but just what is the bare minimum that should be required for safety/liability reasons.

 

[Thalassamania]

If you happen to be naturally negative (buoyancy, not attitude), then 10 minutes in deep water is aerobic.

Should be easier for you to do a 10 minute swim the tread. What's the story?

 

[lazyturtle]

The swim test (at least I think) is intended to show that the potential student is comfortable in the water, not a great swimmer. Diving is not swiming, they're different skills. I certified a fisherman in the Bahamas (who'd been diving for 20 years without a certification and only needed one to buy a compressor there) who could swim MILES with MFS but couldn't make it across the pool (a short pool at that) without MFS. Despite that this guy was a true waterman and had no fear of being in the water, out of sight of land and boat!
consider boat diving where you may not be able to swim to shore (no matter how good of a swimmer you are) as the site may be to far from a entry point. For example here in Hawaii we have some sites that are a mile or two from a exit point. Add a strong current and waves and even a good swimmer would have a hard time making it back.

Just to add a twist to this:
What does the anti-padi/ssi patrol think a 'good' swim test might be for an OW class? 1 mile? wearing a weightbelt?

 

[ShallowDiverDave]

Then give them absolute guidelines that are clear to the students in the course material. Mine are 450 yds swimming in 14 mins or less prior to entry into the class, 900 yds in freediving gear in 20 mins or less prior to going on scuba, and a 350 yd skill based circuit swim in 12 mins or less prior to course completion. People can float or tread all they want on their own time.

I didnt say anything about absolute guidelines. I said, some instructors are not absolute with guidelines, meaning some are lenient and don't have a pass/fail mentality. This is an inherent quality of some human beings and in my view cannot be easily reversed.

 

[Thalassamania]

At last we get to the real question here: this is not about what we would all like to see new divers be able to demonstrate, but just what is the bare minimum that should be required fpr safety/liability reasons.

I hate to have to limit our discussion to just that.