PADI vs NAUI

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In many countries, liability is based upon act or omission. In other words, what was taught, what wasn't taught that should have been, what the instructor did, or failed to do. The former may relate to the agency and the latter to the individual instructor. It may also be held that regardless of what the "standards" of the organization are, that this does not release the instructor from not including anything that s/he should have known to be "reasonable" under the circumstances.
However, if the standard has been ommited or deleted by the agency(in an industry with no REAL hard rules, someone must think that it's not a necessity. IE: SSI allowing shops that supply students with dive computers during training to ommit teaching tables. Knowing how to use a table isn't a necessity unless you find yourself without a computer. But in reality diving isn't s necessity either, so it can be argued that no matter the circumstance the agency's standards will never be sucessfully chalenged in court. The same logic can be used with many skills that I still feel are necessity.... Ditch and dawn(submerged), recovery of another diver, surf entrys etc. They can all be argued as omittable with these words" you are certified to scuba dive to the level that you have been trained and under the conditions in which your training took place". And not one diver I know hasn't overstepped that boundry.
 
However, if the standard has been ommited or deleted by the agency(in an industry with no REAL hard rules, someone must think that it's not a necessity. IE: SSI allowing shops that supply students with dive computers during training to ommit teaching tables. Knowing how to use a table isn't a necessity unless you find yourself without a computer. But in reality diving isn't s necessity either, so it can be argued that no matter the circumstance the agency's standards will never be sucessfully chalenged in court. The same logic can be used with many skills that I still feel are necessity.... Ditch and dawn(submerged), recovery of another diver, surf entrys etc. They can all be argued as omittable with these words" you are certified to scuba dive to the level that you have been trained and under the conditions in which your training took place". And not one diver I know hasn't overstepped that boundry.

I'm not in a position to discuss SSI, as I have no knowledge of this organization. It would seem reasonable however in the scenario you described, that the agency would be fine to take a use a dive computer or don't dive attitude.

One situation I ran into a long time ago, was teaching altitude tables as a requirement for OW certification. I was contacted by one certification agency; which told me I was not teaching to standards; as I could not add anything to the program and I could not use anything as a criteria for certification other than what was indicated in the standards. When I checked with a second agency, they told me I was required to prepare the diver for local conditions and if altitude tables were required, I must include them and evaluate all students accordingly. Altitude tables were not mentioned in the standards of either organization at that time.

In the above scenario, I have little doubt that I would be held negligent in civil court if a decompression related accident occurred and I didn't teach/evaluate on the altitude tables. Currently, I have my students write a separate exam on tide tables, which they must pass with a mark of 100% to be successful in their bid for certification, as Nova Scotia experiences the largest tides in the world.

Keeping in-mind that liability is determined by an act or omission, I could see that Agency A may have been held liable, where Agency B would not. It all comes down to what's reasonable. It seems that it would be prudent for an agency to be clear that it is the instructor's responsibility to ensure that students be prepared to "dive safely in the local conditions in which your training took place." Any other comments such as: "for the purpose of certification, no instructor may test the student on anything outside of the standard," or "once a student completes the standard s/he must be certified" opens up a whole new can of worms imo.

Because local conditions require a greater degree of in-water ability and level of confidence, I include a much tougher swimming & in-water evaluation, the skills you have mentioned, blackout drills and others into my 50 hour training program. Because of this I no longer teach with the agency that told me that I was teaching outside of the standards. :)

This runs into the differences in the Agency "training philosophy," which is being discussed on the training philosophy thread.
 
Here's My take on it!
NAUI seems to be more technical in the book reading, and more freedom for the instructors.
PADI Seems to make there stuff easy to read and as simple to remember, and is very Structured in there instruction.
Both have good skills, both give you the knowledge to have a great dive. PADI is really geared to teaching every one.

But it all comes down to the instructor, So find one you like and stick with them. PADI and NAUI both want to keep you safe, Dead students aren't good for Business. I went with PADI, I liked the Shop, adore my Instructor and felt they had a good price and reputation...
Please, Shop your instructors, see what they are about and how they interact people, that is the number one predictor of how your experience will be...
You may be a bad diver, and never do it again... But a good instructor will make sure you have the best, most comfortable experience you can.
 
I was told that NAUI was better than PADI because if we passed our certification course (through the U of Missouri aquatics program) we got our NAUI and YMCA cards for free, those PADI guys had the gall to want $10 to get one of their cards! Can you believe that? TEN bucks. That was in 1974 :)
 
I can only guess the load of complaints this thread will stir up...I would say that its all a matter of opinion. Asking which dive agency is best is kind of like asking 100 people which car is best. You'll likely have loads of different answers and most for different reasons (i.e. color, style, shape, look, feel, performance, etc.). As long as you learn how to dive and understand what to look for and be safe, they did their job...and you are diving. Welcome aboard and have fun :)
 
Yeah, it is very much like the Ford vs. Chevy debate. Both do some things very well, both do some things not as well. Both have supporters who fail to see or acknowledge the weak points of their agency, both have supporters who fail to see the good points of the other one.

For my money, I believe that you can receive excellent instruction from either one, or you can lose the lottery and get a bad experience. The dive industry is a microcosm of life in that respect, and what you do with those results is up to the individual...
 
I started with PADI and then ended up being certified by NAUI. This is not because one is better than the other, but NAUI is at the neighborhood where I eventually moved to; so that's where I got my Certification. The only preferences that I care about are these:
* Good classroom teacher / dive instructor combination
* Materials presented that teaches the basic principles of scuba diving
* Groundings in the SAFETY and RESPECT of this activity.
 
I know that this an old thread, but I've been around the block a couple of times and I respond badly to denigration as a form of self promotion. Maybe you are as knowledgeable as you say.. you shouldn't have to club someone down to make your point. I hold certs form the U.S.M.C, P.A.D.I. and S.S.I.. There are things in all of them that I would have liked to have seen changed. I had good instructors and BAD ones. It was always the instructor that made the difference. Some loved what they were doing (it always shows) and were only interested in making good divers. Others were filling time and cycling as many bodies through the mill as possible and still others got off on being superior everyone else. The best never had anything to prove. If I needed the Cert for professional reasons I took the class, but I always shopped for the best instructor, because no matter what the organization, a lousy instructor is still a lousy instructor. One common tread I found was that most (not all) thought they were the best. I almost felt that there should have been rulers available (both metric and imperial) to see who's was bigger.
 
I was certified under NAUI, I chose NAUI (the shop offered PADI as well) since my father (dive buddy) was certified under NAUI in 1982 and got his AOW in '84. He noticed that my 4 week course (4 pool sessions, 4 class sessions) was much less intense, though he also noticed that the PADI students using the same pool had less stringent / difficult exercises. We had to do a simulated 50' emergency swim (reg in mouth, no breathing, full gear), an no-mask swim, and had to drop all our gear, safely surface, go down and get it all back on. We also did basic rescue, and a simulated unconscious diver rescue, and a 2m (drop) giant stride entry. (Through AquaSystems in Mississauga Ontario)
I would say the instructor is 100x more important than the agency. The guys that taught us were serious and did not pass students that did not meet their specs.
I have no idea about a PADI course, but that is my impression and experience with NAUI.
 
I would have to say its less about the agency (unless your buying insurance from them...lmao.) and more about the instructors. However... If were going off the bare minimums here and instructors doing exactly what they are taught to do. I think you will find the NAUI courses are set up much better. Now I will give you an example be it my own personal experience with them. 2005, going on vacation with my wife. Took her to a local NAUI instructor with the expectations that she would complete her course before we left. After a few classes it was brought to my attention that she would need further training before she could be certified. This did not work with our schedule. We were leaving very soon. He was not comfortable with her underwater skills and general knowledge of diving... He was not able to do the other classes with in our timeliness, so what did I do. I took her down to Underwater sports and got here certified thru PADI in 3days. It worked out to be 8 hrs of classroom, 2 hrs in the pool and 60mins of O/W diving. I can tell you this, when we showed up in Hawaii and went on our first dive, she was horrible in the water. The next dive we did I stopped her half-way thru and aborted the dive. I did not feel comfortable with her in the water. Upon return she finished her training with the previous instructor. There was a considerable difference when she was done. How a PADI instructor would certify her and leave her in the state she was in astonishes me.. The longer I'm in this business the more I hear of similar cases. In my opinion PADI is the walmart of scuba diving. Now I know there are some great PADI Instructors out there, they just don't seem to out weigh the bad ones.
 
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