Perilymph Fistula Surgery

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xtine

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Does anyone have any experiences with fistula surgery? I go in a few weeks and would like to know what to expect.

I am not a diver but this condition seems 'rare' to most ENTs. I have found it seems to be more common for divers. I did get this injury while swimming tho.

Thanks in avance,
Christine
 
Does anyone have any experiences with fistula surgery? I go in a few weeks and would like to know what to expect.

I am not a diver but this condition seems 'rare' to most ENTs. I have found it seems to be more common for divers. I did get this injury while swimming tho.

Thanks in avance,
Christine

Hi, Christine... welcome to the board! I will assume that you are talking about an inner ear perilymph fistula, am I correct?

I guess a little more background information would be helpful in starting this thread, such as what happened to you, what your symptoms were, and the workup that you have had.

There are two types of perilymph fistulas - spontaneous and acquired. Acquired fistulas are usually related to trauma- external, barotrauma, or from heavy lifting. Spontaneous fistulas are more controversial. Here are some previous discussions about this topic:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3567404-post6.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3675102-post16.html

Good luck, and feel free to let us know more of the details...!

Best,

Mike
 
Hi Doctor Mike!

Thanks for the reply. I'll tell you how this all started... (this is kind of long winded and I know Doctors hate that- but if it can help anyone else out there I'd like to go into detail a bit)

My story starts when I had a sinus infection May of 2007. I was blowing my nose pretty hard and plugging one nostril while doing so. I recall that I could hear my ear 'flapping' as I was blowing my nose but I just thought that was the sinus draining. Afterwards, I recall getting some tinnitus but that was all. I believe this is when I stared with some ear damage.

Over the course of 2 months, I felt 'off' but just kind of tired and weak. It wasn't until I went swimming and dove into the water where things really hit hard. As I was nearing the bottom of the pool- around 5 ft or so, I felt a twinge of pain in my right ear. I was fine for the rest of the day, but felt very tired and confused that night. I recall watching a movie and not being able to follow the plot. I was probably dizzy but didn't realize so.

Later that week I had some pretty strange symptoms, 24/7 vertigo, a surreal feeling like I wasn't in my body, loss of hearing, a plugged ear, a 'sshhhhh' noise in my ear, I was dizzy and off balance. I kept on bumping into things (like doorframes) and very clumsy.. I broke a few glasses in just a matter of days. I had tremors throughout my body and was incredibly anxious. I was perfectly normal before the swimming incident and didn't have any history of anxiety or depression. It's only until recently that I've observed that ear problems and anxiety seem to go hand-in hand a bit. (I digress but I just want to defend my sanity a bit :)

Anywho- to make a long story short I saw my GP she didn't relate this to ear at all. I didn't really make the connection to swimming except to think that I had water in my ear. My Dr. checked my ears and they appeared to be fine.

What I did next was really stupid- but I found myself at my chiropractorÃÔ office later that week. I was complaining about my ear and she offered to do an 'ear adjustment' where she pulled the tops of my ears really firm and fast in order to 'open the estuation' tubes and relive the pressure. so she did that and both my ears popped very loud. I was fine until I got home then immediately felt awful. I panicked, called 911 and waited for an ambulance as it felt like I was having a stroke. I'm sure I was massively dizzy but I also had weakness in my face, muscle tremor going down my neck, double vision plus I couldnÃÕ even speak as it felt like it was laboured and I was slurring my speech.

I was briefly checked out at the hospital and I am assuming that the dr. just thought I had some sort of panic attack. I told him of my ear damage theory and he basically wrote it off but suggested that I follow up with an ENT.

Later that week, drop attacks of vertigo started. It usually hit at night and I'd have so the spins so bad I'd be close to throwing up. Each attack improved and over the course of several weeks, I didn't have as extreme attacks. My dizziness changed from a more outwards dizziness to an inner dizziness... I guess I was compensating from the ear damage.

I also observed that as my symptoms worsen, I'd have fluid dripping down the back of my throat. I assumed it was sinus but now I realize it's CSF.

Over the course of months- years really- I have bounced from Dr. to Dr. Most seem to not accept the idea of a PLF at all. After my own research and from speaking to others, I have come to realized that I have either a PLF and or a CSF leak in my ear. If when I have suggested this, they seem to dispute it and pass of my ear adjustment and swimming injury as coincidence.

To the defence of my doctors I have had nothing show up on tests.. My balance testing has been 'normal' and there was a slight indication on a VEMP test but it all depends how the specialist reads it and what they determine as 'normal' and such.

I did travel to New Jersey to see an ENT who specializes in PLFs. He did a glycerine test and TMD test as well as listened to my symptoms and such... he determined that I most likely have a PLF and that I was in need of surgery.

Luckily, I did find an Otolarantolgist nearby who listened to my story and agreed that the swimming incident is related to my ear issues. He has agreed to do exploratory surgery and patch the oval and round window regardless of finding a PLF. I hold out hope that this will work as I'm exhausted from dealing with this and just want to live life normally again.

I started following a fistula protocol in hopes that my wound would heal or improve in May of 2008. I did make a great improvement but I relapse if I over-do things again. Something as simple as a sneeze tends to set me back. I am still following these guidelines but if I stray, I get worse. Recently, I was in a situation where I was forced to pick up my son and *boom* all the symptoms came back from that one thing.

Anyways, I am left with these symptoms- attacks of vertigo or dizziness, ear fullness, tinnitus, hearing loss (seems to fluctuate some or just worsen), fatigue, fluid draining down my throat, when the fluid flows I get headaches, brain fog, pins and needles in my legs/arms, visual disturbances like flickering vision. I improve with bedrest and get worse with activity.

I'm hoping that this surgery will provide some clues and fix my ear... it seems to most scuba divers seem to be more familar with PLFs and find a knowledgable Dr. for help. Hopefully there aren't too many others who have gone through the same ordeal as me and to the same extenet.

I just hope that my recovery goes smooth. I take care of my 2 kids full-time and I worry about how I'll be able to handle things post-op and that's why I was looking for some feedback about what to expect.

Regards,
Christine
 
Hi Christine,

A lot of you symptoms are quite similar to what I went through last spring, mildly a few times over the preceding years, and quite severely seven years ago. Ended up getting a PFO (hole in the heart) fixed.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/diving-medicine/260708-pfo-getting-fixed-next-week-post-op-issues.html

I went to ENT's first, and like you, they found not much wrong, other than the symptoms. In my case, it is likely from a series of small strokes caused by bubbles crossing over through the heart chambers.

It is your choice, but you might very seriously consider consulting a neurologist. They might spot something, as some of what you are experiencing sounds very much like stroke symptoms. I have no expertise in this area, just experience as someone that got hit.
 
Hi Doctor Mike!

My story starts when I had a sinus infection May of 2007. I was blowing my nose pretty hard and plugging one nostril while doing so. I recall that I could hear my ear 'flapping' as I was blowing my nose but I just thought that was the sinus draining. Afterwards, I recall getting some tinnitus but that was all. I believe this is when I stared with some ear damage.

Well, that does sound like there could have been some pressure injury to a previously existing weakness in the temporal bone - that's the thing about PLF, there really isn't a good diagnostic test that will confirm it, and even at surgery the amount of perilymph that leaks can be pretty small and hard to see... Of course (as the second post implied), a good overall medical exam is important too to make sure that you aren't just assuming that everything is ear related and miss something else.


What I did next was really stupid- but I found myself at my chiropractorÃÔ office later that week. I was complaining about my ear and she offered to do an 'ear adjustment' where she pulled the tops of my ears really firm and fast in order to 'open the estuation' tubes and relive the pressure. so she did that and both my ears popped very loud. I was fine until I got home then immediately felt awful. I panicked, called 911 and waited for an ambulance as it felt like I was having a stroke. I'm sure I was massively dizzy but I also had weakness in my face, muscle tremor going down my neck, double vision plus I couldnÃÕ even speak as it felt like it was laboured and I was slurring my speech.

Certainly a scary situation, but doubtful that pulling on the external ear could have any effect (positive or negative) on your condition. Obviously a lot could be going on, but I wouldn't worry that this was the cause of any major injury...




I also observed that as my symptoms worsen, I'd have fluid dripping down the back of my throat. I assumed it was sinus but now I realize it's CSF.

Probably not. A CSF leak is different from a PLF, and even with a CSF leak, there would not usually be enough leakage for you to feel in your throat. Usually with a chronic CSF leak, there would be more severe neurological symptoms, or even meningitis. The amount of perilymph that would leak into the middle ear, even if it made its way down the Eustachian tube, would probably not be enough for you to sense the drainage like that... may be something else like allergies or post nasal drainage...

I'm hoping that this surgery will provide some clues and fix my ear... it seems to most scuba divers seem to be more familar with PLFs and find a knowledgable Dr. for help. Hopefully there aren't too many others who have gone through the same ordeal as me and to the same extenet.

You say that your tests were normal, does this include your audiogram (hearing test)..? It would be unusual not to have some documented hearing loss at some point with a PLF, although it may fluctuate.

In any case, keep us posted... this is obviously a complicated situation. Sorry I can't be more helpful over the Internet...!

Best,

Mike
 
@Lopaka- I saw a neurologist and had 2 MRIs plus CT scan of the brain. Do you think they would have picked something up? You've got me a bit freaked out now! I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with my heart... at least I hope not! How many strokes did you have? I tend to get disoriented very often or at least did in the beginning.

@Mike- My surgeon has told me the same thing... probably not a CSF and I woulnd't be able to feel the fluid gushing... I have spoken to a few others who mention the same sensation as well as my ENT in NJ who told me it's a scientific impossiblity but people have reported it. My surgeon will explore this area and see what he can find.

All I know is when I feel the fluid coming down my throat, my symptoms worsen and it's only ever on the 'bad' side of my ear. My surgeon told me that I might have

"some abnormal communications between your inner ear and your subarachnoid space. These, if they existed in your ear, would have been evident on imaging studies. Regardless, the proof will be in the pudding when we look in your at the time of surgery."

My audiogram did show a hearing loss in my bad ear. I didn't have one prior to my injry to compare to and my ENT said it was mostly conductive hearing loss. Either way, I don't think they're totally sure and I hope this will be solved soon.

I'll keep you posted on how it goes soon... send some good vibes my way :)

Best Regards,
Christine
 
@Lopaka- I saw a neurologist and had 2 MRIs plus CT scan of the brain. Do you think they would have picked something up? You've got me a bit freaked out now! I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with my heart... at least I hope not! How many strokes did you have? I tend to get disoriented very often or at least did in the beginning.

Yes, there is a great instinct to share our experiences here, and I am sure that Lopaka meant well in trying to help. But this points out that we really do need to be careful in trying to "make the diagnosis" in this forum, since it is hard to do even with a lot of background information.... As always, discuss this with your doctor, especially since you have seen a neurologist in the past about these symptoms.

@Mike- My surgeon has told me the same thing... probably not a CSF and I woulnd't be able to feel the fluid gushing... I have spoken to a few others who mention the same sensation as well as my ENT in NJ who told me it's a scientific impossiblity but people have reported it. My surgeon will explore this area and see what he can find.

Right, and remember also that the space in which the cerebrospinal fluid circulates, and the perilymph space are two different spaces. Just remember, that the feeling of postnasal drainage is very common, and can be due to a lot of other things that would be more likely.

All I know is when I feel the fluid coming down my throat, my symptoms worsen and it's only ever on the 'bad' side of my ear. My surgeon told me that I might have "some abnormal communications between your inner ear and your subarachnoid space. These, if they existed in your ear, would have been evident on imaging studies. Regardless, the proof will be in the pudding when we look in your at the time of surgery."

Right, but perhaps your symptoms are made worse when you have some sort of upper respiratory tract infection, causing both the symptoms of drainage and the other symptoms. In any case, hard to say over the Internet...

It is possible for a small bony opening to be missed on the CT scan (the MRI is not as good for showing bone detail), but again, the surgeon is correct that the best way of making that diagnosis is through middle ear exploration.



My audiogram did show a hearing loss in my bad ear. I didn't have one prior to my injry to compare to and my ENT said it was mostly conductive hearing loss. Either way, I don't think they're totally sure and I hope this will be solved soon.

A PLF should cause a sensorineural loss as opposed to a conductive loss, but perhaps there is somethign else going on as well, possibly related to barotrauma or chronic ear disease...

I'll keep you posted on how it goes soon... send some good vibes my way :)

Best Regards,
Christine

Good vibes are on the way! Good luck...

Mike
 
You are right of course Doc, and it sounds like Christine has had thorough treatment. No diagnosis intended.

This is a touchy spot for me, as I was told after my first episode with vertigo that nothing could be found, but the neurologist treating me now saw the stroke on the old MRI. I probably could have avoided losing my hearing if things had been done more rigorously back then.
Yes, there is a great instinct to share our experiences here, and I am sure that Lopaka meant well in trying to help. But this points out that we really do need to be careful in trying to "make the diagnosis" in this forum, since it is hard to do even with a lot of background information....
 
Hi Christine,

First of all my sympathies for you conditions, I know how awful this is and you are right, ear problems do seem to go along with anxiety. How are you now?

Did you get your perilymph fistula surgery? If so how did it go? I’d be very interested to find out. I had a similar experience. I wasn’t diagnosed by a doctor. I have no medical knowledge, but by reading around I did figure this is probably what happened to me too.

In your case, you say something started from blowing your nose after sinus infection. Maybe that weakened the membrane, and then the fistula occurred in the pool? I think I had something similar.

This is my story: I was helping a friend move which involved some heavy lifting, and I expect this contributed to what happened. Anyway, couple days later I was on a flight. Everything was ok on the descent, but when I got up from my seat, I felt something like a tiny trickle of fluid inside my ear (felt like a small bleed), and I felt instantly very dizzy (but not vertigo). No other symptoms at that time other than that. I had 2 hour stopover waiting for my connecting flight. I got on that flight, still feeling unwell, and took some sickness pills. On getting off that flight, I found my ear was then totally blocked. I managed to pop it a few days later, and that’s when the tinnitus started. A “sshhhhh” sound just like yours, and my hearing was pretty poor in that ear.

Well I didn’t go to the doctors straight away which I think was a big mistake, because they didn’t see the symptoms as they were. So I don’t blame them for anything. Anyway, I did have a severe middle-ear barotrauma caused by blocked Eustachian tube. This in itself took several months to heal. I was treated for this. But I think this was the “cause” of the fistula in the first place. It’s difficult to know what symptoms are due to the fistula and which to the middle-ear problems because some overlap. I don’t think middle-ear barotraumas can cause this sort of sudden dizziness. Can the doctor or anyone please explain if this is correct??

I think my fistula must have healed pretty quickly, since I don’t have any of the vertigo attacks that you unfortunately suffer. But I do still get very mild dizziness if I do anything involving a lot of head and neck movements. When I’m still or lying down, I’m ok. But the tinnitus and mild hearing loss is still there.

Apparently it’s difficult to tell perilymph fistula symptoms from Meniere’s Disease, and so many cases of it probably get wrongly diagnosed, which is sad.
 
Well I didn’t go to the doctors straight away which I think was a big mistake, because they didn’t see the symptoms as they were. So I don’t blame them for anything. Anyway, I did have a severe middle-ear barotrauma caused by blocked Eustachian tube. This in itself took several months to heal. I was treated for this. But I think this was the “cause” of the fistula in the first place. It’s difficult to know what symptoms are due to the fistula and which to the middle-ear problems because some overlap. I don’t think middle-ear barotraumas can cause this sort of sudden dizziness. Can the doctor or anyone please explain if this is correct??

Hey, ronniex, thanks for the additional information.

Middle ear fluid or infection don't cause a fistula, but if there is a pre-existing weakness in the wall between the middle and inner ear, a sudden change in pressure could conceivably cause a leak. However, this is typically due to a sudden spike in INNER ear pressure, as might be seen with lifting or straining, as opposed to slight MIDDLE ear pressure changes, as might be seen with flying. Again, the whole concept of the spontaneous PLF (without a history of straining or trauma) is somewhat controversial.


I think my fistula must have healed pretty quickly, since I don’t have any of the vertigo attacks that you unfortunately suffer. But I do still get very mild dizziness if I do anything involving a lot of head and neck movements. When I’m still or lying down, I’m ok. But the tinnitus and mild hearing loss is still there.

Apparently it’s difficult to tell perilymph fistula symptoms from Meniere’s Disease, and so many cases of it probably get wrongly diagnosed, which is sad.

Yes, and there is a third possibility, if you get vertigo or dizziness with head movements - BPV, or benign positional vertigo. This is thought to be related to loose debris in the inner ear, which gets moved around with certain head positions and triggers one of the ears to send signals to the brain (as opposed to both of them together). The brain has a problem interpreting different signals from the two ears and this can cause vertigo. BPV can be treated by a variety of vestibular rehabilitation exercises and maneuvers...

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Mike
 
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