Pony Bottle Configuration

[Uncle Pug]

Spectre once bubbled...
1.I'm still looking for a compelling argument on how the second dive on a set of doubles is safer than a dive with a single and a bailout.

In my eyes, the inconvenience of swapping a tank out between dives is miniscule compared to the added complexity of doubles. 2.Complexity in that you can't 'plan' to have enough gas in reserve, as the 'reserve' is completely dependant on how fast you get the sucker isolated. 3.Also, for nasty access shore diving, I much prefer to be able to bring the tank down in the first trip, the pony in the second... rather than huffing a set of doubles. [/B]

1. My point here was not one of safey (doubles vs single/bailout) but of better gas utilization. ( I can usually get three recreational dives out of my 72s.)

2. What type of failure are you expecting will drain the reserve away before you can isolate? Actually it is very easy for me to manipulate the valves on my manifold. From my perspective the doubles rig is much more flexible than a single w/bailout since both tanks are available to either reg. and yet can be quickly isolated.

3. Yes, I can see situations where in the absence of a sherpa it would be easier to handle two singles than one set of doubles... though I don't think the exception proves the case. BTW... is a redundant tank/reg really necessary for these nasty access shore dives you are doing or is it just a perceived need.

 

[jonnythan]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
But then I don't dive solo... anymore... except last night... sorta.

I read that as "Story time!"

 

[Spectre]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
BTW... is a redundant tank/reg really necessary for these nasty access shore dives you are doing or is it just a perceived need.

The need for redundancy when diving in a buddy team is debatable in any situation. However my dive club requires gas redundancy for any club related dive over 60 feet.

The other side of the _need_ is for those of us not blessed with great buddies. Yes, things have gotten much better due to the folks I've met here; but there is still the occasional time I'm diving with a new diver, or an unproven buddy. In those situations I start with the assumption that they are diving with a buddy, and I am diving solo; until proven otherwise.

Of course in my situation I'm diving with a 40 cuft stage rigged bottle, so when/if I begin doing staged decompression diving; there is one less thing to get used to.

 

[JCKCSYCMD]

My primary approach is doubles, isolating manifolds, and dual regs. Primay reg (aka primary 1st stage), primary 2nd stage on 7', with necklass 2nd stage backup. Backup reg (remember 1st stages also fail) with clipped 2nd stage.

With that said:

I also have occasions for a pony like: Single tank outings for myself, or other divers on singles in vicinity, I like to have a self contained 'package' that I might need in full ditch, or to hand off to someone else.

Hang off D rings, hip and shoulder, and have the 2nd stage bungied to the tank.

We also run surface air (hooka rigs) on some of our salvage recoveries, and a 13' pony is the backup to slowly and calmly get out of a situation if required.

I also like having a small emergency rig on my boats. Grab a pony for a quick need, cut props clear, etc. A 13 ft pony is great for this. Grab a mask, clip pony to prop shaft and cut free wrap, etc., anchor releases, etc....

With 30+ yrs of diving and thousands of dives, how often has a seperate 'package' or regulator, manifold failure, entanglement, etc., occured? Less than a handful, but I will opt for redundancy. I have been on too many recoveries not to take notice.

I have never used a fire extinguisher on any of my vehicles, boats, houses, etc.....nor a smoke alarm or CO2 monitor ever been needed, ....or the ON-Star on my vehicles for the airbag.......but I have all those also....just in case.

Be safe....

 

[Uncle Pug]

jonnythan once bubbled...
I read that as "Story time!"

the other culprits are on SB and can tell their own story if they choose too... but somehow I get the feeling that probably won't happen.

 

[PacNWdiver]

I'm with JCKCSYCMD,

I can't see how a truely redunant gas supply (i.e. a pony) can be a bad thing. It's true that my 19 cuft. pony adds some minor complication to my rig, but the benefit far out weighs the risk.

In fact, after a lot of thought, I ditched my octo for dives I use my pony on. I figue that if my buddy runs out of air we are going directly up. Safety stop would be nice and we will do what we can. But, we will probably be doing extreemly well just to maintain a safe assent rate as we BOTH fight panic. In such a situation there is no need to have three regs hangin' off me.

John

 

[Rhpenning]

I carry a cell phone when I backpack "just for emergencies". I've never needed it and in many instances it doesn't connect in the backcountry, but could be a lifesaver. I dont' rely on it and take chances thinking I can just call 911. This is what I was really after in my original post--why not have a small (13-19cf) redundant air for that "one in a million" chance you may need it. Is it truly a case of creating a solution for a problem that is not there or maybe just good parctice and a good habit to get into, just like practicing buddy breathing? Clip it on, bungee the reg and forget about it (until you need it).

 

[Uncle Pug]

Rhpenning once bubbled...
Clip it on, bungee the reg and forget about it (until you need it).

If you forget about it until you need it you will discover the downside(s) of a pony at the worse possible moment.

1. Plan to not need it.
2. Manage your dive and gas to not need it.

BUT... if paranoia compels you to take a pony then at least practice with it... and be aware on the downsides of carrying it.

 

[large_diver]

UP -- so let's hear your opinion on the downsides of pony use (assuming one is not using it as part of their gas management plan, still practices good buddy team skills, and practices pony deployment/re-stowing underwater)...

(1) bulkier/less streamlined
(2) increased entanglement hazard

Others?

 

[Uncle Pug]

large_diver once bubbled...
UP -- so let's hear your opinion on the downsides of pony use...

Let's see if any of you pony aficionados have identified the liabilities... and how you have mitigated them.