Lost Yooper
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Poseidon Jetstream/Odin
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Matt
Registered
Dearest Daisho:
I know that you would like to have all of your gear soon, life's hard. But you must be one with the force, and all will be well soon enough young Padawan!
Be cool, its almost here!
I know that you would like to have all of your gear soon, life's hard. But you must be one with the force, and all will be well soon enough young Padawan!
Be cool, its almost here!
The problem with the upstream design is that they have to have an overpressurization relief-valve built into the hose (which they do) which makes the hoses proprietary and expensive. Proprietary means that none of your Poseidon hoses can be interchanged with any other hose/reg that you own, not even other Poseidons.
The twin problems for the high IP is that no other second stage will work with that first at that pressure, so again, it's not interchangeable unless you want to dedicate the Poseidon 1st to a lower IP reg (which many tech "monkeys" do) in which case why did you buy the Poseidon in the first place? In fact, you can't really even exchange between models of Poseidons! Second, if you have a free-flow and again, this applies more specifically to tech divers with a roof of some kind overhead, you will lose a LOT of gas VERY FAST before you shut it down and there is no reason for it. Why buy something that has this "lose a lot of gas very fast" design built in?
The notion that Poseidon seats last for 30 years is ridiculous beyond belief. I hope you're not serious about this. Yes, in a refrigerator in its plastic sack, yes, it will last 30 years, but Poseidon seats DO fail with some regularity, just as ALL SCUBA regulator seats fail and if you believe that they don't EVER fail, then I have some beachfront property in Afghanistan for sale . . . .
The service issue that I have suggested is about availability of service, not cost of service. There are many that believe that SERVICING the reg (note the word "service" is not the same as the word "hoses") is on average more expensive. No, what I'm also concerned about is availability of service worldwide. I've had problems finding people who would service my Poseidon regs in Belize, Cozumel, mainland Mexico, the Bahamas, Bermuda, Bali, Fiji, Aruba . . . you name it. Although it _may_ have improved since I've been to some of these places, it's more likely that a shop will be able to service most other regs on the market than have the tools to service a Poseidon. I'm still waiting for anyone to address this specifically. And the notion suggested that some are using "homemade" tools appears to support the "teckie banging on it with a hammer and monkey wrench" view of things. I have my regs serviced by authorized service centers.
Clearing a Poseidon is not usually a problem, but is primarily an issue in a tech diving situation, something you rarely encounter in an OW1 class. And it's not even a problem then except that it is preferable to hand a potentially panicked diver a dry reg, not one that an OOA diver has to try to blow repeatedly clean when trying to get a full breath and choking. A small complaint, but more valid primarily in a high-stress tech situation than OW where there is a surface to panic to.
I think that the Poseidon was a great reg back when there was just no other reg that would deliver that volume of gas at depth, but now, not only are there other regs capable of delivering sufficient volumes regardless of depth, but the whole nature of deep diving is changed. There is no longer any reason to breath air deeper than 150', so using a reg that will blow up your skirts no longer has a direct application. Many good regs will do as well or better.
<<And finally, let address something that exemplifies this person's complete lack of understanding of regulators.>>
Ah, the "you're a dummy because" strategy. Not really the level of maturity I was hoping for, but it sounds kinda macho, like you know it all and I know nothing . . . very effective. I'm sure there's a Latin word for such a logical fallacy, but I have a complete lack of understanding of Latin, too.
New reg buyers should consider all these factors when buying a new regulator. If you are already a Posidon owner for whatever reason, then keep using it. I think, however, that a lot of the "defenders" of the Poseidon reg these days are divers who bought it for a lot of different reasons and need to justify that purchase. Some bought Poseidon to be the big dog on the dive boat, because, let's face it, it has had that rep and divers do buy gear sometimes with their, uh, well, not their heads, let's say.
So wipe away the tears, there's no crying in SCUBA. Ya'll have been VERY entertaining yourselves, so enjoy your Poseidons for what they are/were, not for what they are not!
JoeL
The twin problems for the high IP is that no other second stage will work with that first at that pressure, so again, it's not interchangeable unless you want to dedicate the Poseidon 1st to a lower IP reg (which many tech "monkeys" do) in which case why did you buy the Poseidon in the first place? In fact, you can't really even exchange between models of Poseidons! Second, if you have a free-flow and again, this applies more specifically to tech divers with a roof of some kind overhead, you will lose a LOT of gas VERY FAST before you shut it down and there is no reason for it. Why buy something that has this "lose a lot of gas very fast" design built in?
The notion that Poseidon seats last for 30 years is ridiculous beyond belief. I hope you're not serious about this. Yes, in a refrigerator in its plastic sack, yes, it will last 30 years, but Poseidon seats DO fail with some regularity, just as ALL SCUBA regulator seats fail and if you believe that they don't EVER fail, then I have some beachfront property in Afghanistan for sale . . . .
The service issue that I have suggested is about availability of service, not cost of service. There are many that believe that SERVICING the reg (note the word "service" is not the same as the word "hoses") is on average more expensive. No, what I'm also concerned about is availability of service worldwide. I've had problems finding people who would service my Poseidon regs in Belize, Cozumel, mainland Mexico, the Bahamas, Bermuda, Bali, Fiji, Aruba . . . you name it. Although it _may_ have improved since I've been to some of these places, it's more likely that a shop will be able to service most other regs on the market than have the tools to service a Poseidon. I'm still waiting for anyone to address this specifically. And the notion suggested that some are using "homemade" tools appears to support the "teckie banging on it with a hammer and monkey wrench" view of things. I have my regs serviced by authorized service centers.
Clearing a Poseidon is not usually a problem, but is primarily an issue in a tech diving situation, something you rarely encounter in an OW1 class. And it's not even a problem then except that it is preferable to hand a potentially panicked diver a dry reg, not one that an OOA diver has to try to blow repeatedly clean when trying to get a full breath and choking. A small complaint, but more valid primarily in a high-stress tech situation than OW where there is a surface to panic to.
I think that the Poseidon was a great reg back when there was just no other reg that would deliver that volume of gas at depth, but now, not only are there other regs capable of delivering sufficient volumes regardless of depth, but the whole nature of deep diving is changed. There is no longer any reason to breath air deeper than 150', so using a reg that will blow up your skirts no longer has a direct application. Many good regs will do as well or better.
<<And finally, let address something that exemplifies this person's complete lack of understanding of regulators.>>
Ah, the "you're a dummy because" strategy. Not really the level of maturity I was hoping for, but it sounds kinda macho, like you know it all and I know nothing . . . very effective. I'm sure there's a Latin word for such a logical fallacy, but I have a complete lack of understanding of Latin, too.
New reg buyers should consider all these factors when buying a new regulator. If you are already a Posidon owner for whatever reason, then keep using it. I think, however, that a lot of the "defenders" of the Poseidon reg these days are divers who bought it for a lot of different reasons and need to justify that purchase. Some bought Poseidon to be the big dog on the dive boat, because, let's face it, it has had that rep and divers do buy gear sometimes with their, uh, well, not their heads, let's say.
So wipe away the tears, there's no crying in SCUBA. Ya'll have been VERY entertaining yourselves, so enjoy your Poseidons for what they are/were, not for what they are not!
JoeL
Fredrik
Guest
I can't see why it is a problem to have an overpressurization relief-valve built into the hose since it ensures that you still can breathe from your regulator in case of a free flow in the first stage. If the hose is expensive, so what, diving is expensive.
Anyway, why would anyone want to attach another second stage on that particular hose?
Poseidon is actually manufacturing a new regulator that will be finished this year. Ofcourse it is using the servo-technique as in the jetstream and they are also using a new patented technique in the first stage. It has been tested here in Sweden, by techies, for quite a while now.
I havn't tested it myself, but I know that Poseidon has put some effort in trying to reduce all less good things within the old jetstream/odin and I am pretty sure it will be an outstanding regulator.
Anyway, why would anyone want to attach another second stage on that particular hose?
Poseidon is actually manufacturing a new regulator that will be finished this year. Ofcourse it is using the servo-technique as in the jetstream and they are also using a new patented technique in the first stage. It has been tested here in Sweden, by techies, for quite a while now.
I havn't tested it myself, but I know that Poseidon has put some effort in trying to reduce all less good things within the old jetstream/odin and I am pretty sure it will be an outstanding regulator.
Bob3
Contributor
Not to change the subject, but what are the going rates on APEKS regulators?
Northern Diver is a stocking distributor & I can get my mitts on them. I was never impressed with the prices though. The TX50s cost me more than the Jetstreams & Cyklons.
The IP on a Jetstream is 145 - 152, not that far off from other regs.
The Cyklon rings in at 174, making LESS of a cooling effect from less of a pressure drop if you're concerned with 1st stage icing. It will have MORE of a cooling effect in the 2nd stage, but a true 2nd stage freezeup is much more rare than a first stage freeze, the most common cause for a freeflowing 2nd.
The Apeks uses a 1/2" hose, by the way, so it also is a propriatary hose that can't be swapped out with the teeming masses.
Northern Diver is a stocking distributor & I can get my mitts on them. I was never impressed with the prices though. The TX50s cost me more than the Jetstreams & Cyklons.
The IP on a Jetstream is 145 - 152, not that far off from other regs.
The Cyklon rings in at 174, making LESS of a cooling effect from less of a pressure drop if you're concerned with 1st stage icing. It will have MORE of a cooling effect in the 2nd stage, but a true 2nd stage freezeup is much more rare than a first stage freeze, the most common cause for a freeflowing 2nd.
The Apeks uses a 1/2" hose, by the way, so it also is a propriatary hose that can't be swapped out with the teeming masses.
Fredrik,
It's just kludgey and unnecessarily expensive. It adds a level of complexity and failure that just isn't needed and adds to the cost. When traveling, it means one more thing that is hard to replace. Imagine damaging your long hose while on the road with your average diveshops around that have your average long hose replacements, but (as is usual) no Poseidon long hose. If you have almost any other setup it's no problem: buy the long hose hanging on the display and go diving.
Yes, diving is expensive, why make it more so for no good reason?
If you, like the average technical diver, have several sets of regs, interchangeability of hoses and the ability in a pinch to use a different 2nd stage can mean the difference between going diving and playing golf.
I have nothing against golfers, BTW.
JoeL
Lost Yooper
Guest
Bob3,
I'm not positive, but I don't think there's an Apeks reg made that I can't get for under $300US from the guy who I buy from.
Mike
I'm not positive, but I don't think there's an Apeks reg made that I can't get for under $300US from the guy who I buy from.
Mike
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