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saying once bubbled...
By the way, anyone know exactly how the dive manager figures the SAC rate? Does it just do average depth & PSI used or does it figure in each depth? (This is for non AI.) [/B]

I wondered this and did a few tests and manually working out my SAC using the average depth, pressure used and time came out different to the Suunto calculations in the 4 quick examples i tested. This hints its a bit more technical than this method (although im not 100% sure there SHOULD be a difference - its an average air over the dive so average depth should be same figure ??)

I only used a very rough 10m - 1 ata pressure though so error introduced that way. Ive got nothing else better to do tonight so i'll try it with the proper numbers to try to get a better answer.

Incidentally, did you end the dive solely because of NDLs ? I find it strange to call a dive when air supply is sufficient for the dive and some short stops if needed.

With a computer a small amount of stops you'll probably find clear on the ascent before getting near to the stop depth anyway.

Our dive time off club boat is always limited by time. On charters its always limited by air (or cold in some cases), never NDLs - theyre just accepted and the stops completed.

 

[RichLockyer]

String once bubbled...
(although im not 100% sure there SHOULD be a difference - its an average air over the dive so average depth should be same figure ??)

Did you calculate using sample points at 10 or 20 seconds (the same as the Suunto sample rate)? If not, then your average depth would be different.
FWIW, sdm also gives you average depth... maybe compare sdm's average and calc that against air usage.

Don't forget to add "1" for surface pressure

 

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Im using 10 second resolution and using SDMs official report of "average depth" to make sure it was the same numbers - not calculating myself. The only approximation im making is using 10m to mean 1 ata not the 9.98 or whatever the real figure is.

This would obviously give me a slightly higher reading but im not sure that 0.5 slm isnt too high for that alone.

I'll do it properly later on.

 

[flw]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


I think if you push Suunto to the limits at 100 fsw or deeper, you will find that it is no grandmother at all.

Do not try it!

Just saying, Suunto looks conservative by its low NDLs compared to USN. But on deeper dives, it rivals USN, which means you really should have a hyperbaric chamber on site first, if you want to push the deep end limits of Suunto as well.

I'm sorry, but the more posts I read from you, the more I've come to the conclusion that who-ever you are, you probably have no training or experience ( or either) in decompression/staged diving of any description, yet you continually post drivel on the subject.
You really need to get over you're bogey-man type fear of deco and exceeding ndl's or get some training so at least you're post's make some kind of sense - rather than a gibbering nonsense.
Yes, it does mean you do have to know what you're doing and be equipped for it - divers need to have _understanding_ not irrational fear, that in itself if dangerous

rgds
F

 

[jviehe]

saying once bubbled...
This weekend was the first time I had to end my dive due to NDLs instead of gas supply.

I'm pretty psyched about that.

I know it's stupid, but I feel like a better diver for it.

Sounds its time for deco training...

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

flw once bubbled...



I'm sorry, but the more posts I read from you, the more I've come to the conclusion that who-ever you are, you probably have no training or experience ( or either) in decompression/staged diving of any description, yet you continually post drivel on the subject.
You really need to get over you're bogey-man type fear of deco and exceeding ndl's or get some training so at least you're post's make some kind of sense - rather than a gibbering nonsense.
Yes, it does mean you do have to know what you're doing and be equipped for it - divers need to have _understanding_ not irrational fear, that in itself if dangerous

rgds
F

So youre scottish, and yet you dont understand the english language too well.

I did not mention deco diving. I suggested that you not push the Suunto NDL limits while on NDL, particularly deeper than 100 ft. Because if you do, you will indeed find out that the Suunto is no grandmother when in comes to conservatism.

Hope that helps your english comprehension.

I can do without your ad hominems as well.

 

[flw]

Pushing the magic NDL's and moving towards deco - going back to another thread, I can't be bothered to look for now, you referred to deco diving being avoided at all costs, staying the 'right' side of ndl's - personally everyone using a suunto vyper I've dived with has commented on how conservative they are.
More than once, you've commented on anyone pushing ndls ( and therefore moving towards deco) should need to have a chamber on site, unnecessary risks etc etc etc - what exactly do you see as unnecessary risks( and why), and what numbers can you come up with to justify your arguments.

As I've said before, ndl's are not magic numbers, you are not 'safe' one side of them nor are you 'unsafe' the other side.
In recreational limits, I've seen 3 bends that didn't involve a definite cause, all were well within both computer and tables limits

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

flw once bubbled...
Pushing the magic NDL's and moving towards deco - going back to another thread, I can't be bothered to look for now, you referred to deco diving being avoided at all costs, staying the 'right' side of ndl's - personally everyone using a suunto vyper I've dived with has commented on how conservative they are.
More than once, you've commented on anyone pushing ndls ( and therefore moving towards deco) should need to have a chamber on site, unnecessary risks etc etc etc - what exactly do you see as unnecessary risks( and why), and what numbers can you come up with to justify your arguments.

As I've said before, ndl's are not magic numbers, you are not 'safe' one side of them nor are you 'unsafe' the other side.
In recreational limits, I've seen 3 bends that didn't involve a definite cause, all were well within both computer and tables limits

Oh please, now youre mixing threads, informally of course, on different subjects. And your English comprehension has not gotten any better in the meantime.

If you are looking for a fight, you are only making yourself look silly with your confused topics and fractured attempts at reasoning, evident from the above and this thread.

If you are looking for a fight, I will be happy to fight you. But lets pick a topic you are better at, such as: Are the English soccer teams better than the Scottish??? I will vote for them, and you can cheer for your home boys.

If you dive 3 deep NDL dives below 100 feet with a Suunto, it will tell you that you do not need to do deco stops, only safety stops. Go ahead and try it, if you really think the Suunto is a grandmother in terms of conservatism.

Deco diving is a totally different subject. That has nothing to do with Suunto, in case you forgot what this thread is about. I have been to 74 meters on deco. How about you??

 

[saying]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...
If you dive 3 deep NDL dives below 100 feet with a Suunto, it will tell you that you do not need to do deco stops, only safety stops.

As I understand it, repetitive diving is where the RGBM model makes up for it's single dive conservativism. While someone with a Pelagic may have oodles more bottom time indicated on dive one after a few days of repetitive diving the Suunto will be the one allowing longer.

On the recommended dec:, I'm not so worried about whether my Suunto tells me I'm OK with 3 minutes at 15 feet anyway. The one thing I dislike about my Mosquito is that counter because I rarely use it.

I always do a 1/2 depth stop and then a loooooooong 15-20 foot hang.

 

[flw]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...


.

If you dive 3 deep NDL dives below 100 feet with a Suunto, it will tell you that you do not need to do deco stops, only safety stops. Go ahead and try it, if you really think the Suunto is a grandmother in terms of conservatism.

Deco diving is a totally different subject. That has nothing to do with Suunto, in case you forgot what this thread is about. I have been to 74 meters on deco. How about you??

You still havn't addressed any of my questions in either thread, however I really can't be bothered any more, life is just too short.

Just a couple of points, I'm English, not Scottish, it's football not soccer, and I really couldn't care less about it, I played hockey.

Quoting 74m is a bit pointless - depth is not a goal in itself, unless there is a nice steamship there - I'm not sure what you think it proves