PSA for those doing vacation Guided Boat Dives

[Sat Diver]

For me it is a bit different, my brain stays engaged even when I step in the recreational world, or any world for that matter.

First of all have the tendency to only follow the rules I agreed in advance and even then. If the "rule" can be twisted in any way... look a couple of post above yours.. a DM telling someone to stay put at 115feet... in cases like that I don't care how many rules I agreed to follow, but that's just not going to happen.

I am not in the habit of disengaging my brain, if thats what you think I meant.

I am not sure who you agreed with in advance ? Certainly not the hapless "Buddy" who got stuck with you.

By making an announcement that you are going to ignore them on the dive as you are about to get in, does not make it ok to do so.

The point I was making was that I would respect the rules of the captain / charter operator that I was going with, regardless of my own personal abilities or agenda.

I do not go with charters when I do a wreck dive down to 400 or 500 ft, because I do not want to follow their protocol. I want to do my own dive with the guys I choose to dive with.

But if I do get on a charter for whatever my reasons, I would follow the rules of the captain.

 

[Zieg]

I am not in the habit of disengaging my brain, if thats what you think I meant.

I am not sure who you agreed with in advance ? Certainly not the hapless "Buddy" who got stuck with you.

By making an announcement that you are going to ignore them on the dive as you are about to get in, does not make it ok to do so.

The point I was making was that I would respect the rules of the captain / charter operator that I was going with, regardless of my own personal abilities or agenda.

I do not go with charters when I do a wreck dive down to 400 or 500 ft, because I do not want to follow their protocol. I want to do my own dive with the guys I choose to dive with.

But if I do get on a charter for whatever my reasons, I would follow the rules of the captain.

I guess you didn't read Ana's posts very well.

 

[flots am]

And that is what I learned from this situation. After the dive I told my wife that this would never be a situation we got into again. Thankfully nothing terrible happened and we definitly learned from it. Next time my buddy and I are following our dive plan regardless if someone else is with or not. The shop we do our instruction with (typically) said the same thing as you, you your buddy regardless of guide or no guide need to execute your dive plan "plan your dive dive your plan" regardless.

Dont' feel too bad. It's really common, and huge numbers of people get bitten by this.

As long as you keep track of your buddy, your gas, your no-deco time and have a good idea where the boat is, you can dive safely.

"Trust me, I'm a professional" is one the SCUBA industry's dirtiest secrets.

flots.

 

[RTee]

My preference is to dive with folks that I know and without a DM. However, I also know that a lot of dive shops down South have a policy of group diving, Cozumel being one of those places. The one nice thing about diving there is even though the dive is DM led, the dives are done in pairs. If one diver has to come up for whatever reason, the DM will shoot his SMB and have the diver and his/her buddy to come up, do a safety stop and then get picked by the boat...and then the dive continues. When the DM thumbs the dive (normally done on a pre briefed BT), all those remaining come up without exception and we all exit at that time.

In Cuba, things were different, if one diver comes up everyone comes up ...including the DM. It does not matter if I agree with it or not...we were well briefed before hand and dove accordingly.

I spent a week on a live aboard in the Bahamas. We got briefed by the DM and then we went and did our non-guided dive in pairs or threesomes (if somebody could not dive for whatever reason). Being part of a group who chartered the whole boat for the week, we all knew everybody else (with one exception) and we all got along and had fun.

My point is...when you go to Rome, you do like Romans. That's it. So far, all boat operators I have dealt with were all upfront with the type of diving (guided/unguided) they were offering as well as dos and don'ts. Most of the time, the waiver also stipulates that I will dive according to their procedures and that I am well aware of those. Also most of the folks I regularly dive with, including myself, will have no problem telling somebody that he or she is a pain in the b....or is out of line especially if they disregard pre dive instructions.

 

[wtcreaux]

Have divers, even those that hired for guide/DM service, sign waivers of liability. If they want to do things on their own, then let them.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT A LAWYER.


A good friend of mine is though and tells his wife she can sign ANY waiver she wants without reading it as he routinely trashes same disclaimers/waivers in court. Basically, signing a waiver helps keep the business from being sued (to begin with), but once the wheels are in motion, I have had several lawyer friends tell me they (waivers) are "basically worthless" - YMMV

 

[MuddyRubberDuck]

I have had a situation not to long ago where my wife and I were on a dive trip and we hired a guide for the first day to learn the dive ops set up, give us some back up as we had not done many deep dives at that time, and well just to show us around the wreck.

The problem for us was they paired us up with another pair (suppose to be only us two but they were busy as we were told after) when we hit the wreck my wife did stop to take a picture (we shouldve be a bit more aware also) and next thing you know the other two were a decent distance from us the guide was in the middle and I had hit my first third of air so it was time to head back to the anchor line. I relayed that to the guide who then signaled us to stay put while he went and got the others. By the time he returned I was down to 1000 psi at 115' and about a third of the way down the wreck from the assent line. Anyhow, I relayed this to my guide and he took control and signaled to another off duty guide who came over and assisted (mostly just incase). Anyhow to make a long story short I made my accent got to the safety stop with about 400 psi and was sucking on the hang reg, with like three other people there just incase and to assure me all was well.

I do not blame those two we were with we stopped for a picutre and probably lingered to long or at least longer than we should've for the dive but again we were not aware of this reason we hired a guide. The guide did what he thought was right and if he had not showed when he did I was going to head back to the line and basically do as they had (they told us in the pre dive briefing about the hang regs)

So to those that just disregarded the guide not knowing the whole situation first hand I would say your lucky they let you dive the second dive. And for those dive guides that do their job the best they can one thing sticks in my head. Though an operator or guide cares about your safety, your safety is in your control and if you give up that control by taking on a guide just go with the flow or go solo.

Sorry for the ramble sounds like you did what your job entailed but its almost impossible to make adults do what you want if they dont want to do it.

Wow, this post is so full if reasons that I would never conduct my dive or myself in this manner.

1) I would never hire a DM independently (or at all for that matter) to ensure my safety. That's my responsibility.
2) If for some crazy reason I did pay extra for a DM, for myself, there wouldn't be another pair with us just so they can double their profits and cut costs.
3) If I want to take a picture, I'm going to take a picture on the dive I paid for and not feel one but sorry for it.
5)I do not use charters who make you swim back to the boat. You only got you use a third of your dive time to see "new" things. Now you have to turn around and swim back by all the same **** you just looked at. No thank you. I paid, you can pick my up when my dive is done.
6)I didn't want the first DM, I certainly don't want some "off duty" guy putting his nose in my business.

Sorry for the rant, I just don't know why people insist on using these cattle boats who don't provide any service and charge 2 groups for a private dm then he's a group guide a of a sudden. Or, as in the OPs case, ( not saying you had anything to do with it) it sounds like the customers paid to dive then the captain forced them to be led around like dogs. If you think they are unsafe, refund their damn money and leave them at the dock. Don't get to the dive site then tell them they don't get to do what they paid to do. I'd be pissed too. /rant

 

[Mossman]

A good friend of mine is though and tells his wife she can sign ANY waiver she wants without reading it as he routinely trashes same disclaimers/waivers in court. Basically, signing a waiver helps keep the business from being sued (to begin with), but once the wheels are in motion, I have had several lawyer friends tell me they (waivers) are "basically worthless" - YMMV

Their effectiveness varies from state to state. In states where they are effective (most states, I believe), they are definitely not "basically worthless". Still, liability for gross negligence can't be waived, so there may always be an issue, even in states which allow waivers of liability for negligence, as to whether the negligence was gross or not. If the judge sides with the defense that there was a valid waiver and the negligent conduct or omission did not rise to the level of gross negligence, the case can be dismissed at the early stages, potentially saving the defendant a lot of money.