Questions concerning Backplates.

[cool_hardware52]

If passivation makes 304 stainless perform "very well," then by that logic, wouldn't' the Hollis backplate that's made of 316 stainless AND is electropolished perform extremely well? Especially because the site says electropolishing is "an electrochemical process that is a "super passivator" of stainless steel". I'm just trying to make sense of it all. I know you have to defend your own product at DSS but I'm just trying to find what will work best.

If I need to lift a 500 lbs load is a 10,000 lbs. test rope "better" than a 9500 lbs. rope?

I'm a designer and engineer, not a sales guy. I try to spend my customers money on things that matter and add value. Molded corner grommets on the plates, custom molded wing fitting using Acetal, not ABS. An OPV designed from the ground up to accommodate 3mm cord. 30 mil bladders. Custom molded wing center panel grommets etc. I've always resisted "buzz word" features that sell based on the buyer not understanding why they should care (or not care).

DSS produces ~95% of the goods we sell in house. For the plate we do the design, waterjet cutting, hand finishing, machine finishing, forming and overmolding. For wings we do the design, cut and sew, RF welding of the bladders. We also produce the required RF welding dies. We injection mold and machine the wing fittings, elbow and all of the elastomeric sewn on details on the wing. We also produce the required molds. This is unique in the industry. It allows DSS to offer wings with features nobody can.

The temptation to offer goods that appeal to the "pre purchase perception" can be strong, but fortunately we are in a position to produce and sell what better serves the "post purchase reality"

Tobin

---------- Post added March 20th, 2015 at 08:04 PM ----------

The reality today is that it's pretty hard to buy a "bad" BP&W. Pretty much all BP&W's have far more in common with each other particularly when compared to their alternative. As long as you avoid the BP&W packages that attempt to turn a BP&W back into a jacket BC with dodads, gizmo's and needless extras that overtime take up residence in your "no longer needed" pile you can't really go too far wrong.

While I encourage research there are many things in life that require you buy one and use before you can appreciate "exactly" what you want in the next one you buy.

Look at the options available for a custom DUI dry suit. The reality is despite mentors, and research etc. the 2nd suit you spec out will be different from your first because only by diving with it can you fully appreciate some of the available choices.

Tobin

 

[drrich2]

Deleted; didn't realize I'd left the post open awhile & others had already followed up what I meant to ask about, I think.

 

[tridacna]

The temptation to offer goods that appeal to the "pre purchase perception" can be strong, but fortunately we are in a position to produce and sell what better serves the "post purchase reality"
Tobin

Problem with a DSS BP/W is that it still looks as good today as when I bought it 10 years ago. After >500 dives, I really can't justify buying a new one despite the urge for new toys.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

An OPV designed from the ground up to accommodate 3mm cord.

Tobin is not my favorite person, but every wing and SMB I carry has a DSS OPV on it. Great design, and well-executed. Though like the Halcyon plate vs. the garage-shopped street sign, there's really no need for one.

 

[gcarter]

Problem with a DSS BP/W is that it still looks as good today as when I bought it 10 years ago. After >500 dives, I really can't justify buying a new one despite the urge for new toys.

The good news is that if you DO buy a new rig, SWMBO will probably not even notice

 

[TSandM]

The grade of stainless is not going to make much of a difference, if you rinse your gear. Far more important is the size of the plate, the number and location of cambands slots, and the number and location of the drilled holes. For example, I love the small Halcyon plate, which has the slots close together at the top (obviating the necessity for me to cross my straps). But it has no cambands slots and requires an STA, so that's a deal-breaker for me.

Peter and I have a lot of DSS gear, including several steel plates. We have not had any corrosion on any of them. They have two cambands slots, and lots of convenient holes to attach various things to, if you are so inclined. I recently replaced the harness on my singles setup. That harness was 9 1/2 years old, and has seen probably between 800 and 1000 dives with me. There was a tiny bit of fraying where the webbing went through the plate slots -- certainly nothing that compromised its integrity. It was replaced simply because somebody gave me a bunch of webbing in a different color.

Spend your time, and your money, on your wing. Wings DO differ. We dove some in the Red Sea that wouldn't expand evenly inside their covers, and trapped gas. Major brands won't do that.

 

[stuartv]

I'm a fairly new diver, so take my post for what it's worth. I have 16 dives now on my DSS BPW and I think there are some specifics about it that make it a great choice that other folks aren't mentioning.

The harness slots have molded in rubber, so you don't need to use webbing protectors, and you don't have to worry about the harness webbing getting worn by direct contact with the steel BP itself.

The DSS wings have a unique (AFAIK) design that allows you to remove and replace them without undoing the cam bands or using any tools. And yet the wing will stay in place even the tank is removed. Talking about use with single tanks, here.

You don't need a Single Tank Adapter to use the DSS BPW with a single tank - but you can if you want to. To be fair, some other brands have this feature also.

DSS offers a kit that bolts onto their BP that will let you use a Hogarthian harness but still adjust the shoulder straps quickly. Typically, that kind of harness makes it hard to pull any slack from the waistbelt into the shoulder straps. The DSS kit would typically be used just on one side to allow you to loosen/tighten one shoulder strap quickly to make it easier to put it on or take it off. That said, I found that, for me, once I got mine fitted correctly, there's already enough slack in the shoulder straps that it's pretty easy to don/doff as is.

DSS has precisely machined stainless steel plates that bolt onto the backplate to add 8 pounds of weight in a way that is better distributed for good trim, and is pretty much totally streamlined. I am really looking forward to putting mine on and using them the next time I dive in my 7mm suit. With another brand of BP, that would just be 8 more pounds of weight I would have to put on a belt or in a trim pocket.

The only negative thing I can say is that I have an LCD 30 wing, which is horseshoe shaped and I won't buy another one that shape. I will buy a donut shaped one in any future purchase. The horseshoe shape is a PITA to dump air from when I happen to be in any kind of head down trim, since it only has a dump valve on the bottom left, but not the bottom right. It's not a big deal, but it's a minor annoyance that doesn't exist with a donut wing (which DSS also offers). That said, I suppose if I'm totally honest with myself I would admit that if I needed a new wing and I found a DSS horseshoe one for the right price, I actually would buy another one.

 

[cool_hardware52]

The only negative thing I can say is that I have an LCD 30 wing, which is horseshoe shaped and I won't buy another one that shape. I will buy a donut shaped one in any future purchase. The horseshoe shape is a PITA to dump air from when I happen to be in any kind of head down trim, since it only has a dump valve on the bottom left, but not the bottom right. It's not a big deal, but it's a minor annoyance that doesn't exist with a donut wing (which DSS also offers). That said, I suppose if I'm totally honest with myself I would admit that if I needed a new wing and I found a DSS horseshoe one for the right price, I actually would buy another one.

Thanks for the kinds words.

I am a bit perplexed about your comments concerning our LCD wings. Pretty much all wings have a dump on the left only. Remember that for the "lower arc" of a donut wing to be able to shift gas from one side to the other requires the diver to be about 55 degrees heads down. Gas *always" goes to the high point in a wing and the lower arc of a donut wing is trapped between the cylinder and your butt. I dump gas during ascents, and I pretty much never ascend 55 degrees heads down.

When do you need to fully evacuate your wing in a heads down position? The left mounted OPV / string dump will of course allow for minor adjustments in gas volume if you are poking around under a ledge.

Gas very seldom actually transfers through the lower arc of a donut wing. I've welded the bladders in donut wings shut at the lower arc and had folks test dive them, they could not tell the difference. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't find a donut wing dives much differently from your LCD.

Tobin

 

[stuartv]

Thanks for the kinds words.

I am a bit perplexed about your comments concerning our LCD wings.

I was on a shallow reef dive last week. I went completely inverted to look under a ledge. Just elevating my wing by that 1 or 2 feet or so caused me to start to rise. Being in fairly shallow water, the ascent accelerated pretty quickly. Attempting to dump air out of the butt dump valve wasn't working to stop my unintended ascent.

Perhaps the specific rotation I went through resulted in most of my air being in the right side of the wing. I don't know. It was warm water, and I was wearing a 3/2 suit, 6 # BP, and 8# of weights, with a 30 pound wing, so there wasn't much air in it, relative to its capacity. Thinking back on it, I think the reef was on my right, so I probably did start horizontal, rotate my right side up, then rotate to feet up/head down. So, it's very possible that most of my wing air was in the right side of the bladder.

Anyway, I ended up having to flip over to a head up position to dump air to stop my ascent. I felt like if I had been diving a donut instead of horseshoe, I could have stopped my ascent without having to flip myself 180 degrees. Or, of course, if I also had a right side dump valve.

 

[danvolker]

I was on a shallow reef dive last week. I went completely inverted to look under a ledge. Just elevating my wing by that 1 or 2 feet or so caused me to start to rise. Being in fairly shallow water, the ascent accelerated pretty quickly. Attempting to dump air out of the butt dump valve wasn't working to stop my unintended ascent.

Perhaps the specific rotation I went through resulted in most of my air being in the right side of the wing. I don't know. It was warm water, and I was wearing a 3/2 suit, 6 # BP, and 8# of weights, with a 30 pound wing, so there wasn't much air in it, relative to its capacity. Thinking back on it, I think the reef was on my right, so I probably did start horizontal, rotate my right side up, then rotate to feet up/head down. So, it's very possible that most of my wing air was in the right side of the bladder.

Anyway, I ended up having to flip over to a head up position to dump air to stop my ascent. I felt like if I had been diving a donut instead of horseshoe, I could have stopped my ascent without having to flip myself 180 degrees. Or, of course, if I also had a right side dump valve.

Don't you think it would have been pretty simple to just SWIM downward, that this would be able to push down even 10 or 20 pounds of lift? And I doubt you had much over 5 pounds of lift, unless you went for a full inflation instead of dump

Of course, if you have soft split fins, it is understandable that you could not fight the lift