Questions concerning Backplates.

[danvolker]

And if it doesn't make any difference then what is the reason for offering a donut? What IS the reason to choose a donut over a horseshoe?

I use the Halcyon 18 pound lift horse shoe shaped wing....I have since 97....I went a month with a Halcyon 30 lb wing ( the doughnut), then my wife Sandra tried it, liked it much better than her Dive Rite, and suddenly I lost my 30 pound wing
But....I felt no advantage in anything with the 30....If anything, the 18 lb wing was slicker in the water....Both could be instantly dumpred and trimmed perfectly from any position I ever get myself into ( whether shooting video, grabbing lobster, whatever).

Stuart, if you dive with us in Palm beach some time, I will promise to show you all the tricks of getting these wings to work the way you want them to. We are at the point now, were we could go through 10 more pages of posts...or 20 minutes of a dive ..and the dive would be way better !

 

[cool_hardware52]

No, I didn't. I said 1 to 2 feet and the depth I stated was "shallow". I will clarify that the depth was closer to 15'.

Are you really trying argue that 1-2 ft @ 15 ft is something most divers can't manage with lung capacity alone?

And if it doesn't make any difference then what is the reason for offering a donut? What IS the reason to choose a donut over a horseshoe?

There really isn't any. That's what I've tried to convey twice before. A well designed narrow horseshoe and a well designed narrow donut both dive the *same*. We make and sell both. I have no vested interest in either design. Any body that has ever sought my advise about wings knows I consider capacity first, then maybe shape depending on the application. Horseshoe vs donut is way way way down my list.

I have found that the new divers that are most insistent buying a "donut" are those who have been told by their instructor, who works out of a shop that sells only donuts wings, that they *must* buy a donut........... go figure.



Tobin

 

[stuartv]

Are you really trying argue that 1-2 ft @ 15 ft is something most divers can't manage with lung capacity alone?

I did not say that, or even imply it, either.

---------- Post added March 22nd, 2015 at 08:01 PM ----------

I use the Halcyon 18 pound lift horse shoe shaped wing....I have since 97....I went a month with a Halcyon 30 lb wing ( the doughnut), then my wife Sandra tried it, liked it much better than her Dive Rite, and suddenly I lost my 30 pound wing
But....I felt no advantage in anything with the 30....If anything, the 18 lb wing was slicker in the water....Both could be instantly dumpred and trimmed perfectly from any position I ever get myself into ( whether shooting video, grabbing lobster, whatever).

Stuart, if you dive with us in Palm beach some time, I will promise to show you all the tricks of getting these wings to work the way you want them to. We are at the point now, were we could go through 10 more pages of posts...or 20 minutes of a dive ..and the dive would be way better !

Tobin previously recommended a Torus 17 for my specific application. I suspect that if I had the smaller capacity, even in a horseshoe, what happened to me last week probably wouldn't have happened. A wing nearly half the capacity probably would not have allowed such a high percentage of the air inside to fit all on the right side.

But, what I have is what I have and I will need it for my upcoming Deep and Wreck classes in cold (colder, anyway - in a 7mm suit) water. And I can't yet afford to buy a second wing just for warm water.

I would also point out at this point that I said right up front that I considered the whole thing to be very minor. A small thing, but, as I know of no reason to avoid a donut, that small reason is still enough to cause me to opt for a donut in the future.

 

[TSandM]

It would have to be a very weird situation to end up with all your air in your wing in the side pontoon away from your dump valve. I suppose it could happen. But exhaling and finning down should have stopped any buoyancy issue, if it was recognized quickly. The problem with novice divers is that they often don't recognize the issue until it has exceeding what can easily be fixed, and of course, if you're only in 15 feet of water, you don't have much time to fix anything before you're on the surface!

I've used horseshoe wings for ten years, in a wide variety of environments, and I've never run into a situation where I couldn't dump enough gas to control my buoyancy. I've had buoyancy oopses where I DIDN'T vent enough gas (lots of them, when I was new) but they weren't because the gas couldn't be gotten out of the wing.

 

[stuartv]

I have no doubt my situation qualifies as an oops for not starting to dump soon enough. But, it also still seems like a donut would have allowed me to recover without having to flip back to a head up trim.

 

[decompression]

Also, there really shouldn't be that much air in your wing. Remember, if properly weighted there should only be enough air in the wing to offset the weight of air in your tank (4-5 lbs?). If you were on an AL80, near the end of the dive, very little air at all.

Further, you are planing to do a deep course soon in a 7 mil suit? There are lots of posts suggesting that would be less than optimal, could you do a dry suit course first?


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[Pavao]

My thought is, because it's made of 316 stainless it will last longer with less degradation than many other brands that use 304 stainless. Also, it's the cheapest 316 stainless backplate that I've found. My questions are:

Does being made out of 316 stainless matter as much as I may be led to believe?

Yes Highlander, you wouldn't want to be wearing a rusty BP 2-3 centuries from now, would you?


As others have pointed out I'm sure, I don't think it matters much, it's going to outlast you, quality of other parts may be more important, like wing, hoses, inflators, etc.

 

[stuartv]

Also, there really shouldn't be that much air in your wing. Remember, if properly weighted there should only be enough air in the wing to offset the weight of air in your tank (4-5 lbs?). If you were on an AL80, near the end of the dive, very little air at all.

Further, you are planing to do a deep course soon in a 7 mil suit? There are lots of posts suggesting that would be less than optimal, could you do a dry suit course first?

I wasn't at the end of the tank. But, being a 30 # wing, I do think the capacity in use was a small percentage. Which would make it easier for most/all the air in the wing to end up all on one side, if I just happened to go through the right sequence of rolls/pivots.

RE: Deep Diver in a 7mm. Well, first, we're talking about Rec Deep. So, 130' max. Second, the training dives are in a quarry with a max depth of 90'. I have not run the numbers, but my gut says that a 7mm suit will be fine for single tank diving to 90' and probably to 130'. Further, I expect that the instructor will tell me/us if it's not. But, I will confirm for myself (probably with help from the instructor to ensure I did the calculations correctly). I will have a SMB, just in case an emergency requires some extra lift.

And, lastly, I do not remotely have the money right now for a dry suit - or, really, even to take a dry suit course. I am getting Deep and Wreck through BAREG at a huge discount. And I want to take Underwater Nav in the next 2 months, which is another $85. And that (with all the requisite fills, quarry passes, etc.) will probably eat just about my entire diving budget over the next 3 months.

Once I get those courses and the DAN DEMP course (already paid, just haven't gotten to the date for that yet) under my belt, I just want to dive for a while - with the equipment I have. If a dive comes along where I NEED a dry suit, I'll take a pass and do other dives where what I have is sufficient.

 

[decompression]

Stuart....

NOWDIVE TV Balanced rig on film - YouTube

Food for thought......dive safe.


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[geoff w]

...
Over the last few days I've looked at products/setups from Dive Rite, Apeks, DSS, Hollis, Halcyon, Oxycheq, HOG, and Zeagle. So far I've somewhat decided on the Dive Rite XT, but my decision is by no means set in stone. Please provide some info so that I can maybe give my fingers a rest from constant typing and searching for info. Thanks in advance guys.

Nobody else responded specifically to this comment, so I will. I've got a Dive Rite setup and love it. Very well made, extremely well thought out, great customer service and a delight to dive with. Other friends / dive buddies dive backplate setups from Apeks, DSS, Hollis and Halcyon. To each his own. More than the material, all manufacturers backplates are slightly different shapes with different bend geometry. Personally, I find the Dive Rite most comfortable for me. Depending on how you are build, a flatter backplate like the DSS might be more or less comfortable. Some of the other brands have more bend. You should try several different brands to see what is most comfortable for you

Despite what everyone says, it seems all the accessories like pads and adjustment systems from the same manufacturer work best together instead of mixing and matching. If you decide to mix and match, try it all out put together before committing. Wings seem to work across manufacturers just fine. I have the Dive Rite Transplate harness, and for beach dives with longer walks on trails and across beaches find it more comfortable than just continuous webbing, as well as easier to accommodate switching between wetsuits and drysuits, but use continuous webbing for my tropical backplate where I'm just diving off a boat and wearing a thinner wetsuit. If you like the Dive Rite 5+ lb steel backplate, their light 2.5 lb stainless backplate is great for warmer water diving