Recompression Chamber Under The Boat?

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Oh, my goodness. There aren't very many people in the Internet world on diving who have my undiluted respect, but Steve is one of those people. If he gives you an answer, it's best to read it carefully and reflect on it, whether you find it palatable or not.

I try to leave the drama somewhere else, but I'll be damn, if someone thinks they're going to talk down to me, while I just sit there with a smile on my face. Doppler did edit his post. Who knows, maybe he was having a bad moment, IDK... whatever the case, I'm grown man and I won't tolerate anyone's disrespect to my face. Diving is a recreational activity for me and it's entertainment, albeit a very expensive form of entertainment. People who make their living selling and promoting this sport, should be very cognitive that it's enthusiast like me, that keep them in business. Now that I've drawn my line in the sand, let us get back to talking about diving.
 
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Anyone ever seen the movie Stripes? I love the "Lighten up, Francis" line...


I have no idea what Doppler originally wrote in his post (prior to editing it). Maybe it was a little harsh. Maybe it wasn't.

The important thing to remember is that we were all newbies once. We all had questions.
ScubaBoard provides a place on the Internet where we can share our enthusiasm for diving with other people and help each other out.
 
... and I think that's exactly what Steve was attempting to do.

I put a lot of effort into trying to be helpful to new divers ... but sometimes I post something, go back and reread it a few minutes later, and realize that it could be taken in a manner completely different from what I intended. At that point, I can go back and edit my post to clarify my intent ... but anyone who has already read it will have seen, and perhaps responded to it, in its original form.

Happens to the best of us ... and with respect to this topic, Steve is a far better source of information than just about anyone on ScubaBoard. Most of us have been around long enough to "read" intent, based on past history with the person writing the post ... for those lacking that history, misinterpreting intent is far easier.

That's clearly what happened here. It's since been cleared up ... let's move on, please ... this is a sideshow to what is otherwise a pretty good topic ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Great question Debajo Agua, I have often wondered about this myself. Sometimes a chamber and O2 are not available. I was on a liveaboard where they briefed us that if a deco stop was missed they would do exactly that, put you back in the water until you fulfilled your obligation. I'm sure they would have qualified divers in the water with you. Interesting stuff
 
... Sometimes a chamber and O2 are not available. I was on a liveaboard where they briefed us that if a deco stop was missed they would do exactly that, put you back in the water until you fulfilled your obligation…

This thread discusses potential benefits and risks for a preventive treatment of sorts, rather than treating omitted decompression or safety stops. The catalyst was the same as you describe, a liveaboard a great distance from a chamber.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/diving-medicine/402490-increasing-safety-margin.html

The link to the DAN article that prompted the question in the first place is also enlightening.
 
Let say for example, for what ever reason, on the first dive you exceed your no-deco limits and don't have enough air to make the proper deco stop at 20 feet. During a short surface interval, say one hour, no signs or symptoms of the bends manifest, but you're still worried. So rather than risking a trip, to the closes hospital with a deco chamber that evening, you decide to take a second dive at, say 35 feet, re-compress and breathe off all of the residual nitrogen for 30 minutes or more.

Sounds like the OP was discussing missed deco stop to me.

Oh you are referring to the thread cited below, OK

What I have wondered about is doing underwater recompression if there were no other option available in a case where symptoms of DCS were present.
 
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What I have wondered about is doing underwater recompression if there were no other option available in a case where symptoms of DCS were present.

Tjack: Let's attempt to clarify the issue of IWR. 1) It's risky. Those risks include those mentioned in my earlier post with a strong emphasis on the subject diver getting worse... becoming paralysed for example... and/or loosing consciousness. Oh, and dying.

Various protocols and tables for IWR have been developed over the years. The recognized tables include the Australian, the US Navy, and the Pyle tables... I believe Pyle's modification to the Hawaiian table are the most "up-to-date." I am reasonably sure that NONE carry sanction from the major sport agencies and therefore the only recommended treatment for a sport diver is to alert EMS, give surface oxygen, hydration, close supervision and evacuation at first opportunity.

The technical agency I teach for, I do consultant work for and on whose training advisory panel I served for several years, does not sanction IWR either. I hope that's clear. Essentially, and especially in the context of the OP's original question, IWR is simply NOT an option, for ANY recreational diver (sport or tech) and especially NOT in the situation described.

Now, just in case it's not clear why, here's a checklist of the minimum kit and personnel requirements for attempting IWR in a remote location.

  • a heavily weighted shot line secured in a sheltered spot where surface waves will not influence comfort of subject diver and/or the tender (who will be in the water) and treatment supervisor (who will be on the surface).
  • Some way to hold the subject diver in place... a climbing harness works as does a sidemount harness with some modifications
  • Stages in the shot line to hold the subject diver at a set position in the water column... prussik loops work if done correctly
  • Full-face masks with coms to the surface and each other
  • Surface supplied gas (oxygen et al) supplied to the subject diver via umbilical
  • An experienced tender and supervisor who have at very least certification and some background in hyperbaric treatment
  • A valid IWR treatment "table"

As someone who is occasionally involved in expedition diving (the only situation I can imagine where the whole team would discuss IWR as part of the SOPs during pre-trip planning sessions), IWR is considered highly risky even when ALL the above, and a few more details, are available. It is also understood that IWR (just as recompression in a chamber on the deck of a boat or in a medical facility) may not resolve the issue. In other words, the subject diver may die.

The preferred option if a portable chamber is NOT AVAILABLE -- and something many expedition leaders seem to have less hesitation using -- is saline IV therapy, oxygen and the use of pain medication all administered by a practicing medical practitioner of some sort... NP, Paramedic, MD et al. It is therefore considered best practice to have at least one of these as part of the team on ALL expeditions to remote locations... I invite someone with this background on ALL expeditions and am lucky enough to have been team leader on expeditions on which our medical team was very experienced. To date, these staff have supervised a diver autopsy but have NOT been called on to help with IWR, therefore my first-hand experience with this issue has been ZERO.


The protocols for MISSED or OMITTED DECOMPRESSION are different because the circumstances are totally different and are discussed and outlined in several technical diving student manuals... including a couple of TDI manuals. The procedure is based on the one once used by the US Navy and which can be found with a Google search.That procedure is taught as part of decompression and trimix courses. It is NOT offered as an option nor is it taught to North American sport divers, because it is outside the scope of sport diving parameters. The scenario originally presented in this thread is one that I believe falls into the accidental muppetry of a sport diving incident, and therefore, my original suggestion stands... it's risky, don't attempt it. My later edit (and for those who may wonder about that edit, nothing was changed in the body of my reply, certainly not the tone of my response) simply added a suggestion to purchase Mark's excellent book. Which I also stand by.

For what it's worth, I have tendered for divers who have missed decompression and for whom the omitted deco protocol worked.

Hope this helps to clarify the whole issue.
 
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I have no idea what Doppler originally wrote in his post (prior to editing it). Maybe it was a little harsh. Maybe it wasn't.

Doppler's original post is quoted ... in its entirety ... in the OP's response directly below it (reply #11). I saw nothing about it that was harsh or disrespectful ... but then, I'm a bit more familiar with Doppler than the OP, and in agreement with his position and the reasons behind it.

Sometimes we read things into someone's post that isn't there ... happens often on ScubaBoard ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
  • a heavily weighted shot line secured in a sheltered spot where surface waves will not influence comfort of subject diver and/or the tender (who will be in the water) and treatment supervisor (who will be on the surface).
  • Some way to hold the subject diver in place... a climbing harness works as does a sidemount harness with some modifications
  • Stages in the shot line to hold the subject diver at a set position in the water column... prussik loops work if done correctly
  • Full-face masks with coms to the surface and each other
  • Surface supplied gas (oxygen et al) supplied to the subject diver via umbilical
  • An experienced tender and supervisor who have at very least certification and some background in hyperbaric treatment
  • A valid IWR treatment "table"
….

It may also be worth mentioning extra thermal protection and the ability to hydrate the diver. For the benefit of others reading this, even the most mild hypothermia can reduce the effectiveness of decompression, aside from piling on the misery. Core temperature can drop even in 80° F water in a relaxed state — required to reduce OxTox risk and the practical limits of hanging off. Same for hydration. Not sure if eating is prudent in a mask and on O2 but a few cans of a liquid high-calorie and easily-digested drink may be worth having aboard.

For everyone not familiar with Prusik Loops: Prusik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One thing I suggest for an IWD emergency kit is a cherry buoy to hang the shot line from in case you can’t get in totally sheltered water. It isolates a lot of jerking on the line compared to being tied to the boat. It also puts more distance between the diver’s O2 exhalations and fire risk onboard. A few feet makes a difference in dilution rates when the wind is dead calm.

I remember these discussions during my first diving class in the early 1960s. There’s no reason that the same questions wouldn’t be asked today. The difference is your answer is a whole lot better informed than the ones we discussed! It is also far more useful than the “don’t even think about it” replies that are all too common. Well done.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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