Regulator Cost Analysis

[darryl19630]

Incredible! How many divers are willing to play with their safety by ignoring the need for regular service and how many really see no value in supporting local dive shops. As an instructor (and yes a store owner) I know first hand about the mind set of many divers today. In one sense I almost hope you all win. Support the online retailers who do nothing for the sport other than sell gear and put your local dive shops out of business. In truth we would all win! You could buy gear at a really low price (who cares if it's what you need, it's so cheap you could easily replace it. Heck when it does fail and needs service just sell on the "net" to some poor sap)
As for me, as an instructor maybe I could really charge a fair rate for my time, services and knowledge instead of the ridiculiously low prices I charge now in an attempt to help support the retail side of the business.
Stores today certainly need to be fair and reasonable, but so do divers. If your local store is fair with you, offering competitive pricing and professional advice support them, if they're not find a new local shop. There are many dive professionals out there working to help you safely enjoy this sport. When you hire tax advisers, doctors or lawyers do you hire the cheapest?
I hope not, because I've always believed that you get what you pay for. And sometimes if you're unlucky you get what you deserve. Guess you can say I have strong feelings on this subject.

 

[halocline]

Incredible! How many divers are willing to play with their safety by ignoring the need for regular service and how many really see no value in supporting local dive shops.

Yet another example of a dive retailer using fear as a sales tactic:
1) Nobody said anything about "ignoring the need for regular service"
2) As I learn more about the workings of regulators, I realize that it's at least as safe to attend to their service myself as it is trusting it to a "tech" who's only qualification is that he works at a store
3) If regulator malfunction (95% of which is free-flow rather than air stoppage) is life threatening to a diver in OW, buddy system environments, then that diver has ALOT to learn about safe diving practices

I understand your frustration, as a dive shop owner, of reading discussions about online purchasing, and realizing that you provide a service which is unavailable online, but seemingly not valued. If I were in your position, I'd be pretty frustrated by it too. But don't bring safety into this, safety has nothing to do with it.

 

[superstar]

I am considering purchasing a first regulator and am leaning towards a Scubapro MK2 Plus/R190. Leisurepro sells this regulator for $150 (when they have it in stock) and my local dive shop sells if for $306 ($280 plus tax). I understand the benefits of purchasing from a local dive shop (warranty parts, knowlegable assistance, supporting local merchant where you can see things in person), but just wondering how long I'd have to use this regulator for the cost to even out. I've read that the parts package for Scubapro Regs runs $60 ($30 per stage) annually plus labor. How much is labor for an annual service? If I assume it is also $60 (I'm just pulling this out of the air since I have no experience), I'm looking at annual maintenance cost of $120 (leisurepro purchase) vs $60 (local dive shop). If I assume first service occurs at the beginning of year 2, and annually thereafter, it will take approximately 4yrs for the cost to even out. Since I anticipate being a recreational diver (1 to 2 shallow water carribean vacations a year), I might not get my first reg service until the beginning of year 3 (with leisurepro purchase, I understand this would void the warranty at the local dive shop) which means the cost recover wouldn't occur until even later. Does this line of reasoning make sense? I just want to make sure I'm thinking about this correctly. And could someone please give me a more accurate labor cost and correct me if I'm wrong regarding the parts package.

Thanks in advance.

The mk2-190 should go 5 years without a service if you take good care of it. Let us compare prices.
LP-$150 divided by 5 years is $30 per year to use the reg.
LDS-$306 +$60 service fee X 4 years = $564 divide this by 5 years and it costs you $112.80 per year to use.
After 5 years you save $414 buying from LP.
Does this reasoning make sence?

 

[tc]

The mk2-190 should go 5 years without a service if you take good care of it. Let us compare prices.
LP-$150 divided by 5 years is $30 per year to use the reg.
LDS-$306 +$60 service fee X 4 years = $564 divide this by 5 years and it costs you $112.80 per year to use.
After 5 years you save $414 buying from LP.
Does this reasoning make sence?

5 Years without service?

Haven't heard of anyone going that long, any test data on that?

 

[fireflock]

Does this reasoning make sence?

No - 5 yrs without service is nuts, IMHO.

2 yrs, without a lot of dives (typical vacation diver, the kind who probably would be considering this reg) and with plenty of good rinsing and post dive care it what was suggested.

As for me, as an instructor maybe I could really charge a fair rate for my time, services and knowledge instead of the ridiculiously low prices I charge now in an attempt to help support the retail side of the business.

I think you'll find that divers would consider this fair and reasonable. In my mind, it's more fair and more reasonable than providing services at below cost and hoping to make it up by guilting or scaring customers into 'supporting the shop'. I think a good shop has a lot of value, but a good shop will earn you business and not try to scare it out of you.

You can have the best of both worlds, so to speak, by buying a less than $200 regulator from an authorized dealer who will do a complete service for $50, parts included (cough....scubatoys...cough).

Rich

 

[Steve R]

Incredible! How many divers are willing to play with their safety by ignoring the need for regular service and how many really see no value in supporting local dive shops. As an instructor (and yes a store owner) .............

As for me, as an instructor maybe I could really charge a fair rate for my time, services and knowledge instead of the ridiculiously low prices I charge now in an attempt to help support the retail side of the business.
.............

You're killing me bud.

AFAIAC you guys that charge nothing for training are doing a great injustice to dive training and fellow instructors. Since you own the business, why don't you charge for training what you think it is worth instead of giving away the training so you can sell gear?

I believe the reality of it is that your gear sales supports the shop, not the training. I think your quote up there is backwards.

How you get off saying that your customer should pay twice from you what they could get it elsewhere is just insane. If you want the sale, then make the deal. I'm pretty sure you can get creative, and there's no way you would do anything different if you were on the other side of the fence. Your customers aren't trying to kill your business, they're trying to get a reasonable price. The two are totally different things.

Playing with safety my a$ $. A reg will work for years without touching it. I've seen more shop screw-up a perfectly working reg during an annual so often, I've come to believe you don't touch it until you have to. Fully 75% of the regs I've ever serviced did not need it. They were fine.

As suggested earlier, that MK2 is about as simple as it gets and has about 3 cents of serviceable items in it that would take a hell of a long time to wear out.

If you want to talk about safety, lets discuss 4-5 day OW courses for $99,.....heck for that matter, lets talk about 4-5 day OW courses for any price........

You're far more likely to be involved in a serious safety related issue due to poor training than you are a faulty piece of gear.

When you can sort that out as a higher priority, maybe then we'll discuss gear prices and service vs safety.

 

[Steve R]

5 Years without service?

Haven't heard of anyone going that long, any test data on that?

If we set aside that installing a new mouth piece and giving the regs a fresh water rinse (You probably dive salt-water so that makes a greater difference) is not really "service" then I can tell you I have a couple sets of regs that haven't seen a service in about that long.

It really helps to buy a reg with a smart/simple design in the first place...........stuff unlike say a Scuba Pro MK20/25. Too much gadgetry and parts to go bad. I like simple regs that just work well. Not some ill-conceived designers idea of a slick piece of kit..............it generally means it's a slick piece of $ hit that will cause you problems more often than a straight-up simple design.

My one Mk2/R190 (Not part of the two sets mentioned above) which hasn't seen a lot of water lately as it is a lower-end unit and I have too many regs to begin with, has seen maybe one service in its lifetime. This involved me stripping it, cleaning it and re-lubing as required. Then a quick IP check. It actually didn't even need it IMO, I was just bored one day.

regards

 

[redacted]

Incredible! How many divers are willing to play with their safety by ignoring the need for regular service and how many really see no value in supporting local dive shops. As an instructor (and yes a store owner) I know first hand about the mind set of many divers today. In one sense I almost hope you all win. Support the online retailers who do nothing for the sport other than sell gear and put your local dive shops out of business. In truth we would all win! You could buy gear at a really low price (who cares if it's what you need, it's so cheap you could easily replace it. Heck when it does fail and needs service just sell on the "net" to some poor sap)
As for me, as an instructor maybe I could really charge a fair rate for my time, services and knowledge instead of the ridiculiously low prices I charge now in an attempt to help support the retail side of the business.
Stores today certainly need to be fair and reasonable, but so do divers. If your local store is fair with you, offering competitive pricing and professional advice support them, if they're not find a new local shop. There are many dive professionals out there working to help you safely enjoy this sport. When you hire tax advisers, doctors or lawyers do you hire the cheapest?
I hope not, because I've always believed that you get what you pay for. And sometimes if you're unlucky you get what you deserve. Guess you can say I have strong feelings on this subject.

So many interesting issues that it is hard to tell where to start. So how about here:

Why do you try to compare dive professionals with tax advisors, doctors, and lawyers? After I got past the C-card, all I'm really looking for is a good car dealer and a gas station.

 

[ReefHound]

Incredible! How many divers are willing to play with their safety by ignoring the need for regular service and how many really see no value in supporting local dive shops. As an instructor (and yes a store owner) I know first hand about the mind set of many divers today. In one sense I almost hope you all win. Support the online retailers who do nothing for the sport other than sell gear and put your local dive shops out of business.

You sound like the kind of owner that is driving divers to online sources and giving shops a bad name. Do you employ the same baseless scare tactics when selling gear to a diver who walks into your store? A regulator, if rinsed and stored properly after dives, will likely last for many years with no problems. The only need for a service interval based on a calendar rather than usage is to generate dive shop income. O-rings do not go "bad" after a year, or even two or three. Think of how many diaphragms, selas, and other rubber parts are under the hood of your car. Do you get them all replaced annually?

I agree that it is good to support your LDS if they are fair, competent, and competitive. That's a huge IF and those shops seem to be in the minority. Many divers have no shops in their area that meet that criteria.

 

[bureau13]

For what its worth, LeisurePro offers a fit guarantee on many items (I just randomly checked a set of fins, and they had the PFF logo there). If it doesn't fit, they will pay to have you ship it back and will then send you a different size. I just took advantage of that very thing with a rash guard I bought that was too small. Unless you're in a time crunch, this makes taking the on-line savings a no brainer for stuff like this (IMO of course).

jds

Then don't. I'm a big online buyer but it's not right to use the LDS as a fitting room when you have no real intentions of buying from them. Sizing fins isn't rocket science... they come in only a handful of sizes. If your face shape is "normal" it's highly likely any mask will fit you fine. Borrow from friends or rent a variety of equipment to give this stuff a real in-water test, if possible.