Regulator Cost Analysis

[The Novice]

I believe that many if not most SP & AL dealers see the price restrictions not as a burden but as an enabler. Those restrictions enable them to maintain high markups with little fear of price competition. All they really have to do with the customer who is shopping for one of those very popular brands is convince them that they will regret it if they buy from Leisurepro. These dealers are not hard to find and recognise. They push the SP/AL brand. They will make little to no price concessions. They will explain that their hands are tied by the dealer agreement. And they will be death on Leisurepro and the internet.

But there are also dealers for these brands that are not fans of the priice restrictions. They will often employ rather interesting and beneficial techniques to make the value of purchases from them more competetive without violating any dealer agreements.

If most dealers did not want these restrictions, the manufacturers would have a hard time sustaining them.

AWAP is directly on point. I don't know much about the dive industry, but I'm a financial executive for a manufacturer of high end consumer goods. Manufacturers don't like discounting because it erodes the value of the brand. However, retailers rarely complain about suggested pricing policies unless one of their competitors is violating and selling for less. Their complaint is not that they want to be able to sell the product for less, it is that they want their competitor to be stopped from selling for less. They generally appreciate the pricing policies and the margins they provide.

 

[TimAZ]

Then don't. I'm a big online buyer but it's not right to use the LDS as a fitting room when you have no real intentions of buying from them. Sizing fins isn't rocket science... they come in only a handful of sizes. If your face shape is "normal" it's highly likely any mask will fit you fine. Borrow from friends or rent a variety of equipment to give this stuff a real in-water test, if possible.

By all means, go ahead and use the LDS as a fitting room. There is of course give and take. If you take the oppotunity to try things out at the LDS, please give them the opportunity to price match before you leave.
In the case of the regulator in the OP, $300 is about $30 over list price and about $65 over MRP. That is rediculous in and of itself. Moreover, SP put the Mk2+ R190 on clearance last month. Minimum pricing does not apply to clearance items (which are cheaper for the dealer to buy anyway). I run an LDS and do pretty well. Operators who charge a 10% premium over list, though, make LDS's in general look bad.

 

[The Novice]

By all means, go ahead and use the LDS as a fitting room. There is of course give and take. If you take the oppotunity to try things out at the LDS, please give them the opportunity to price match before you leave.

I fully intend to give my LDS an opportunity, and hope that I end up purchasing from one of the LDSs in the area. As I stated in an earlier post, I didn't attempt to negotiate and was gathering information more than anything. Once I'm settled on the exact gear, I will return to one of the LDSs if they carry that brand/model and see if we can come to an agreement. If someone uses dealer restrictions as an excuse and can't be creative with the way the package things, I will then turn to the on-line stores. However, from what I've seen so far, the LDSs only carry Scubapro, Aqualung, and Atomics. In a way, that tells me they aren't really interested in price competition. One of the LDS has already told me that Scubapro and Aqualung were the only stuff they would consider selling due to quality issues. I could be wrong, but that sounds like they are trying to scare people away from the items they don't sell, items that could be purchased on line.

 

[TimAZ]

One of the LDS has already told me that Scubapro and Aqualung were the only stuff they would consider selling due to quality issues. I could be wrong, but that sounds like they are trying to scare people away from the items they don't sell, items that could be purchased on line.

The truth is nearly everyone makes quality gear today. Look at features, pricing, and warrantees. For questions on this or that company's service or quality just ask on the board like you have been or do a search to see if it's been asked/answered before.

 

[b1gcountry]

I didn't read the whole thread, but thanks to DA Aqua for the long post and toughtful comments. I just wanted to add that not all the brands and items will be this overpriced at LDSs. SP regs, as said have a minimum advertised price, that a dealer can't go under, but I've found Sherwood regs for sale at the same price online as at the LDS. Other things like Wetsuits, and BCs have been similarly priced as well.

As to Servicing, I service my Sherwoods, but wouldn't think I'm qualified to service my SP mk17. All the tools I needed to buy were a couple O-Ring picks and a big frickin wrench to pop the first stage Yoke nut off. An IP guage helps a lot too, but I had one already (~$20). One thing people may not understand is that even if a reg isn't used, it doesn't mean it needs to be serviced less often than one that is used frequently. I dive a lot, and my regs get a lot of use, but that means I know how they should breathe, and I know that they work. Problems like seat set, and dry rot are probably more problematic for a little-used reg. If they sit out in the garage, then they may see a lot of fumes and moisture that deteriorates them more than heavily used, but otherwise well-maintained regs.

As for the service interval, the one-year tune up was necessary originally because of the rubber soft parts and O-Rings, which harden over time and need to be replaced. The current materials used in O-Rings and seats are NOT rubber, and can last a whole lot longer than the rubber parts from older regs could. The service interval was never increased, although, at one time, it was necessary to service your regulators yearly.

 

[OnlineScuba]

Hey All,
Being an Instructor who has worked for other LDS along with owning my own and now running a Scuba Shop and an online store called www.OnlineScuba.com I think I may be able to add some useful input here. First off, ScubaPro does not allow online sales, so this means that LeisurePro is buying on the gray market and you will not have the lifetime guarantee from them. I believe LP offers a kind of internal guarantee but that is not supported by the manufacturers. (at least not openly) Not to knock them, as they are simply working off of a different busines model than others.

Those of us that sell scuba gear backed by the full manufacturer warranty means our prices are going to be a bit higher in most cases. While many feel that we (OlineDiveStores) are screwing the LDS I can only say this. We got real tired of people coming in and saying "I really would like to buy from you but can you match this price?" If you are willing to deal you will at least give it a try, but business is tough. Wether you are a LDS or OnlineStore you have bills to pay.

We make it simple for divers, buy your gear from us, receive Full Manufacturer Warranty and free service the first year. Join our Scuba Club and receive 2 years free service. We also give you the information you need to make an informed decision and the rest is really up to you. No, you cannot walk into our website, but we do give you honest answers based on the factors that matter most with your gear purchase. So, I say join the future or be left behind.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I agree the price quoted y the OP is excessive., SP is currently clearning the Mk 2 R190 as well as the Mk 16 and the X650 and this includes whatever first stage they are sold with.

What this means is that an authorized SP dealer can quite realistically sell the Mk 2 R190, the Mk 16 S550, and the Mk 25 X650 (giving low end, intermediate and high end reg options) at what ever markup they want over cost (which varies a bit but is roughly half of MSRP).

The smart customer centered dealers will stock up on all of these regs they can obtain and then use them to compete with on-line retailers on an even footing. The dumber ones will continue selling them at full MSRP.

SP and Aqualung dealers take some heat for sticking with companies that have pricing restrictions on one hand and sell out the back door on the grey market on the other. But both these companies have a solid track record for long term parts and service support and that is a selling point that adds significant value compared to other brands, some of which are reduce to junk shortly after they are discontinued and the manufacturer discontinues parts support.

I agree they should attempt to collectively insist that SP and Aqualung give more than lip service to curbing online sales, but I am not sure many would prefer to drop the dealership(s) entirely as both companies do a good job (otherwise) supporting dealers and customers whihc can make things much smoother for the shop owner/manager.

 

[halocline]

SP is discontinuing the MK2/R190? What's going to replace it? SP is not going to stop making the MK2, are they?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

SP is discontinuing the MK2/R190? What's going to replace it? SP is not going to stop making the MK2, are they?

The R190 is going to get Dc'd. It's been rumored to occur for a long time and in the SP marketing scheme it makes sense given that the R190 has offerred a feature (adjustable flow vane) that the R290 lacks and given that SP has steadily moved away from their larger cased second stages leaving basically the adjustable G250HP and G250V. As far as I know the Mk 2 will still be around - just not the Mk 2 R190 combo.

 

[Guppie]

Pinnacle was having a DEMA special on wetsuits, but I didn't know much about Pinnacle so I went to my LDS. The owner was a DEMA so they were really no help. The store clerk said to come back because the owner will have DEMA specials. In the meantime, I get a hell of a good price from an Dirve Right In Scuba, which is a shop in IL. He was at DEMA too so he was quoting DEMA prices.

The shop owner by me comes back into town so I go see him. Knowing DEMA prices, I ask for his prices on two wetsuits. He said he'd give me a discount for buying two. He quote turned out to be MSRP.

It's amazing how each LDS has a different philosophy when it comes to competition.

This is the same debate with bike shops. I race mountain bikes and you have online retailers and you have bike shops. There is MUCH less hostility towards each other with bikes though.