Regulator Necklace as it relates to Sidemount

[ajtoady]

I run long hose on both tanks. Any excess is bungeed to the tank and the hose comes up along my chest and not around my neck. Neat, clean and regardless which reg is donated it has a long hose that pulls out of the bungee. There is no stress around the neck in any position this way and when I switch tanks to balance them while diving there is no right or wrong tank to donate. This however works for me and may not be for your "mission".
I also always have the left tank on bungee so I know which tank is in use.

 

[Kevrumbo]

In Truk Lagoon yet again (first week's Open Circuit He/O2 Gas Bill is already $1200, and I'm here diving another two weeks more), seamlessly switching between dives on conventional doubles backmount and Z-system Sidemount ---all using the Hogarthian/DIR/Longhose Technique, the same consistent best practice that I have been using for over eleven years now.

Oh yeah, and three years running now diving Z-system here in Truk on the wrecks . . .and no problems at all with the Distribution Block or any other components of UTD Z-system sidemount.

 

[rddvet]

In Truk Lagoon yet again (first week's Open Circuit He/O2 Gas Bill is already $1200, and I'm here diving another two weeks more)

Seriously dude, can you make any post without telling us how much money you blow on gas alone. We get it. You're the coolest you pay expensive prices for helium.

Maybe your posts would carry more gravitas if you just posted about the topic at hand and left out the ball grabbing about how much money you spend.

 

[Razorista]

...and three years running now diving Z-system here in Truk on the wrecks . . .and no problems at all with the Distribution Block...

You still seem to be missing the point.
The problem with the distribution block is that after the first problem with it we would not hear from you again.

It is of course an advantage when it is working fine, but any failure would be final.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Seriously dude, can you make any post without telling us how much money you blow on gas alone. We get it. You're the coolest you pay expensive prices for helium.

Maybe your posts would carry more gravitas if you just posted about the topic at hand and left out the ball grabbing about how much money you spend.

Look at my Truk photo gallery --from nearly seven years ago, and seven consecutive years running now making the trip over here . . . that's all the "gravitas" y'all need.

---------- Post added October 21st, 2014 at 05:26 AM ----------

You still seem to be missing the point.
The problem with the distribution block is that after the first problem with it we would not hear from you again.

It is of course an advantage when it is working fine, but any failure would be final.

You seem to missing the point yourself son . . .no "failure point waiting to occur" with the D-block has happened yet in three years nor do I expect it to. And if it ever does, I'm confident in my training to handle such a contingency. . .

 

[Razorista]

You seem to missing the point yourself son . . .no "failure point waiting to occur" with the D-block has happened yet in three years nor do I expect it to. And if it ever does, I'm confident in my training to handle such a contingency. . .

You do not get what redundancy is for and how a risk is calculated, but it's not for me to advise you there.
Still I will try:

The problem is similar to other things that work but are frowned upon like a free flow control device on the second stage for example.
It will help in most normal situation, but when the 'unthinkable' occurs and it fails itself you are out of luck and out of options.

You only have to hit your pocket containing your replacement 2nd stage when entering the wreck on an edge and you will most likely hurt yourself if a single small o-ring bursts directly at your distribution block afterwards.

This is just not thought through completely and it never can be.
And it is off-topic regarding the original question.

 

[decompression]

I hate myself for jumping in but.....what failure of the isolation manifold is there that isn't on your first stage? If we don't trust O rings we might as well go home. That said I'm always open to hear from SM cave divers with years of experience. I've logged hundreds of dives on my manifolds and have access to a wealth of knowledge through the community and nothing. I still remember my reluctance to try one of those stab jacket things and mixed gas and an ISO manifold for my BM doubles. If anyone wants to armchair their opinion so be it but it would have greater impact if one used the gear. I still have my horse collar lying around....

 

[Razorista]

...If we don't trust O rings we might as well go home...

You're sure? In my limited experience regulator o-rings are one of the main failure points in any system (I can remember dozens of cases I witnessed myself of 'any' o-ring blowing).
Aren't you neglecting something that occurs very often just because it would not suit your argument?

I stopped using several combinations of equipment to minimize that risk for open water diving and would rather take any risk I can work around in case of failure than a single potentially unsolvable one.

That said I'm always open to hear from SM cave divers with years of experience.

Well, then you now have to accept being told by a humble recreational diver that you are (both) seriously wrong there.

 

[victorzamora]

It is of course an advantage when it is working fine, but any failure would be final.

I completely disagree. It's detrimental even when it's working well. You still have to turn your tank valves on and off and you have a much higher workload. It's also woefully off topic.

OP: I'm of the divers diving a short hose on a bungee behind my neck and a long hose on my right post with a breakaway. It works great if you are being attentive, and it scales upwards to multiple stages. I do so and have done so in side mount in caves for years. My instructors have been doing it the same way on more dives and bigger dives than I'll ever accomplish.

 

[decompression]

You're sure? In my limited experience regulator o-rings are one of the main failure points in any system (I can remember dozens of cases I witnessed myself of 'any' o-ring blowing).
Aren't you neglecting something that occurs very often just because it would not suit your argument?

I stopped using several combinations of equipment to minimize that risk for open water diving and would rather take any risk I can work around in case of failure than a single potentially unsolvable one.


Well, then you now have to accept being told by a humble recreational diver that you are (both) seriously wrong there.

Well, in thousands of dives of all types (or heard about in 20 years in the industry) the O ring failures I've seen the vast majority have been yoke valve, not first stage. Even more rare are DIN valve O rings. If you're scared of the probability of an O ring failure, diving isn't for you. Further, the number of o rings hasn't increased significantly and the hoses are simply changed from the first stages to the manifold. Now the difference, you have a failure point behind your back (I dove traditional SM for years before trying the manifold). Thank god we dive in teams. Protocols identical to BM. Solo caver? Maybe not for you.

Otherwise I have an open invitation to anyone unfamiliar or interested in the Z system to try one out. Do I sell them? No. Do I teach them? Yes, as well as conventional SM (just tools in a box)

The distribution block (non isolater) is essentially just for single tank SM, any reference to the second stage in a pocket shows an unfamiliarity with the system.

I agree most of us (Sidemounters, DIR, tech divers) attempt to minimize the risk while still achieving the goal and that involves gear adaptation and protocols.

Honestly, I don't like being told I'm wrong, although admittedly I have been in the past. The neon green wetsuit was a bad idea. I don't think anyone is necessarily wrong, I do ask that you look at the system (in its current state) and try to see the benefits and drawbacks (and there are drawbacks) and make an informed decision regarding its use.

I can't speak for Kevrumbo, no one can speak for Kevrumbo.

But please, if you do have points, please raise them. I find the more information the better. I enjoy the discussion and always learn......except about wetsuit colors.




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