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Are you sure that a rapid ascent does not factor into the calculated bottom time for your next dive? It isn't obvious on the Suuntos that do it.

It is not so much that they are the police--they figure it is one of the factors that need to be considered in dive safety. They believe there is a biological reason for that penalty.

No indications in manuals or performance that is does such a thing. It is on my wrist so I get a fair number of "red" ascents just from scratching whatever itches. Mine are older models that predate those kinds of bells and whistles but I doubt if newer Oceanics have such nonsense either. It would not go with their "liberal" reputation.

My only object point of comparison is my wife uses the same computer in her console that rarely gets unclipped. I see very little differences in out results other than the frequency of ascent alarms (no sound, red bar flashs) when I log our dives.

They may "believe" but they don't appear to have a good scientific/medical foundation for their treatment. Am I missing it somewhere?
 
No indications in manuals or performance that is does such a thing. It is on my wrist so I get a fair number of "red" ascents just from scratching whatever itches.
I have been told that there has to be a minimum distance traveled to make that happened, at least with most computers.
They may "believe" but they don't appear to have a good scientific/medical foundation for their treatment. Am I missing it somewhere?
Beats me. Different people have different theories, and different computers are made with different people's theories. RGBM is an example of a theory that seems to be a little different from most, but the details are so proprietary that we can't be sure.

Bubble model theories will be especially concerned about fast ascents. A fast ascent would cause a rapid growth in bubble size, which is what they are trying to avoid. Contrary to what you might think, it is easier to shrink a small bubble than a big bubble. If the computer algorithm thinks you may have created some oversized bubbles that may be problematic, it will probably want to increase your surface interval to give them time to shrink down and go away. In that case, your future bottom times will also be impacted.

RGBM is an example of a bubble model algorithm.
 
On-gassing of N2 while free diving is not just "theoretically possible". I does occur.
OK, fair enough I will accept that some on-gassing does occur, and I should have been more circumspect in my wording. Anything greater than zero must necessarily qualify as 'some' because, unlike terms such as a 'couple', or a 'few' there is really no agreed upon interpretation of 'some'. You have a (very) small quantity of air in your lungs - maybe, 0.2 cf - you dive to 150 feet, the air compresses, the partial pressure of nitrogen rises from 0.79 to 4.3 so that there is actually some transfer of some nitrogen across the alveolar membranes to the blood stream. But, the absolute amount of nitrogen (what rteally counts, NOT the partial pressure) is so small, that the actual transfer is miniscule. Please, tell us all HOW MUCH nitrogen can be on-gassed. It is trivial. It has to be trivial, there is simply not enough air, and nitrogen in that air, to make any difference.

Using my earlier example - if you were to free dive to 150 feet 30 times, with a short surface interval between each dive, during which you filled you lungs with air, you would on-gas no more nitrogen than you would diving to 150ft (or 100 ft for that matter) on a nitrogen-free gas mixture, then breathing the entire contents of a 6cf bottle of air, before switching back to the nitrogen-free mixture and ascending to the surface. The amount is so trivial as to be totally irrelevant. It makes no physiologic difference. It goes back to the point of the OPs post. What his computer presents is completely, nonsensically, WRONG. So, tell us on the basis of actual numbers, on some actual actual understanding of physiology, and anything else other than citing reports that refer to 'anecdotal and retrospective' evidence (DAN paper), or a 15 y.o, undocumented report of a large series (all of two divers), how much nitrogen can possibly be on-gassed. MY point is, that it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to on-gas enough nitrogen, except under the most extreme circumstances (NOT what the OP described at all) to make any difference at all. In fact, once again, read what you cited: 'This is usually seen in divers who are making many deep dives in a short period of time with little surface interval.' and 'Free diving onloads N2, to a small degree, more or less depending upon the depth and time at depth ' Really? No s**t! What a specific, quantitative statement that elucidates how much nitrogen is actually on-gassed. OK, anything greater than zero is not zero, I agree. But the amount of nitrogen is trivial - there is simply not enough nitrogen in a single lungful of air to make any real difference. And EVERY report of some perceived issue with DCS in free divers is based either on extreme situations, or 'anecdotal evidence'.

'Anecdotal and retrospective' evidence can be used to suggest that bananas on a boat are bad luck. Certainly, the number of boat captains that believe that nonsense probably exceeds the number of physiologists who believe that 1-2 free dives before a scuba dive make any difference AT ALL in the nitrogen loading of the diver.
 
Alarm? Yes. Penalties? Nope. Those are permanent and you can't disable those punishments.

I'm looking at my manual and it looks like it says that the uncontrolled ascent thing can only happen in Air or EAN mode. I was using it in gauge/timer mode.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
 
Interesting.. So you selected bottom time before doing your free dive/s? Or did you start in Air mode and the Puck went into bot - time?
 
I started in bottom time mode.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2
 
OK, fair enough I will accept that some on-gassing does occur, and I should have been more circumspect in my wording. Anything greater than zero must necessarily qualify as 'some' because, unlike terms such as a 'couple', or a 'few' there is really no agreed upon interpretation of 'some'. You have a (very) small quantity of air in your lungs - maybe, 0.2 cf - you dive to 150 feet, the air compresses, the partial pressure of nitrogen rises from 0.79 to 4.3 so that there is actually some transfer of some nitrogen across the alveolar membranes to the blood stream. But, the absolute amount of nitrogen (what rteally counts, NOT the partial pressure) is so small, that the actual transfer is miniscule. Please, tell us all HOW MUCH nitrogen can be on-gassed. It is trivial. It has to be trivial, there is simply not enough air, and nitrogen in that air, to make any difference.

Using my earlier example - if you were to free dive to 150 feet 30 times, with a short surface interval between each dive, during which you filled you lungs with air, you would on-gas no more nitrogen than you would diving to 150ft (or 100 ft for that matter) on a nitrogen-free gas mixture, then breathing the entire contents of a 6cf bottle of air, before switching back to the nitrogen-free mixture and ascending to the surface. The amount is so trivial as to be totally irrelevant. It makes no physiologic difference. It goes back to the point of the OPs post. What his computer presents is completely, nonsensically, WRONG. So, tell us on the basis of actual numbers, on some actual actual understanding of physiology, and anything else other than citing reports that refer to 'anecdotal and retrospective' evidence (DAN paper), or a 15 y.o, undocumented report of a large series (all of two divers), how much nitrogen can possibly be on-gassed. MY point is, that it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to on-gas enough nitrogen, except under the most extreme circumstances (NOT what the OP described at all) to make any difference at all. In fact, once again, read what you cited: 'This is usually seen in divers who are making many deep dives in a short period of time with little surface interval.' and 'Free diving onloads N2, to a small degree, more or less depending upon the depth and time at depth ' Really? No s**t! What a specific, quantitative statement that elucidates how much nitrogen is actually on-gassed. OK, anything greater than zero is not zero, I agree. But the amount of nitrogen is trivial - there is simply not enough nitrogen in a single lungful of air to make any real difference. And EVERY report of some perceived issue with DCS in free divers is based either on extreme situations, or 'anecdotal evidence'.

'Anecdotal and retrospective' evidence can be used to suggest that bananas on a boat are bad luck. Certainly, the number of boat captains that believe that nonsense probably exceeds the number of physiologists who believe that 1-2 free dives before a scuba dive make any difference AT ALL in the nitrogen loading of the diver.

I don't believe the red is correct. I suspect it is partial pressure and time with little effect from volume. Otherwise, we would see loading/decompression algorithms that use SAC as an independent variable.

For most free divers, it probably does not matter, until you mix it with scuba. Only in the extreme case, will you see more N2 loading than the body will tolerate from just free diving (taravana syndrome (pathology) -- Encyclopedia Britannica).
 
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I don't believe the red is correct. I suspect it is partial pressure and time with little effect from volume. Otherwise, we would see loading/decompression algorithms that use SAC as an independent variable.

For most free divers, it probably does not matter, until you mix it with scuba. Only in the extreme case, will you see more N2 loading than the body will tolerate from just free diving (taravana syndrome (pathology) -- Encyclopedia Britannica).

This is correct. There is no way we can believe that people who breathe 40 cubic feet in an hour at a depth do not have the same nitrogen loading as people who breathe 80 cubic feet in the same time at the same depth. 30 minutes at an average depth of 10 feet is not going to make a big difference in your nitrogen level but certainly if you did it as a scuba dive you would want your computer to account for it.
 
Most computers i have come across prevents you from doing just that. once in gage mode and wet prob is sensed you are locked in gage mode for 24 hours. Perhaps i am thinking locked out of normal mode for 24 hours.
Please explain, just to verify my understanding.

Thanks


If you want to use it just to track depth for free diving then I suggest you put it in bottom timer mode. You can move it back to gauge when you scuba dive.
 
This is correct. There is no way we can believe that people who breathe 40 cubic feet in an hour at a depth do not have the same nitrogen loading as people who breathe 80 cubic feet in the same time at the same depth. 30 minutes at an average depth of 10 feet is not going to make a big difference in your nitrogen level but certainly if you did it as a scuba dive you would want your computer to account for it.

While it's really partial pressure (depth) and time that determines nitrogen loading, I would think that tissue perfusion can make a small difference as well. When you breath through 80cf instead of 40cf, you presumably work harder and more blood flows through your tissues, loading them up with a bit more nitrogen. I suppose that's why you add a fudge factor of 10ft. to your depth when you calculate your NDL with tables when you have a dive with a heavy workload.
 

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