Safety Questions for Remote Dive Ops

[gypsyjim]

You don't have to be diving in an exotic location. People freeze to death in their cars when it snows in Georgia.

Divers also die close to home, as we see all too often, but look at it this way: Your folks in Georgia are probably far less likely to freeze to death during a cold snap, than if they decided to back pack across Tibet.

Knowing what questions to ask, knowing what and where the added risks are, and doing your best to manage those risks is what we are discussing.

 

[Akimbo]

Top of my list is finding the closest chamber that will treat divers. Air quality and compressor operation are always a concern but you stand a good chance of finding out about problems like that here on Scubaboard, unless the dive site is really remote approaching an expedition dive.

 

[letterboy]

BoP,

Homework prior to the trip would be crucial. When we went to Belize I knew where the nearest chamber was and what the chances it would be open were, as well as the choices I had to get there (boat, car, help, plane). Other hospitals in the area.

A PCI(precombat inspection) list if you will. Questions to ask on site, o2, defib, who is the first aide guru etc. And on the back the pretrip gathered information, chamber numbers/frequency, Dan contacts/insurance, emergency transport etc. I personally carry one of the 9-line medevac cards from my deployments. They are laminated and can be written on with a permanent marker (in my log book) so in the heat of the moment you or your representative can get information that is crucial to care.

Once you have this metric you can tailor your dives to an acceptable risk, like some have mentioned above.

This would also be good information for those of us who have the opportunity to dive locally.

---------- Post added March 27th, 2015 at 09:06 PM ----------

Something to add to the back of the card could also be your current day, week, trip dives. Approx depths, mix, time and duration. Something they can tag to you if need be.

 

[dmaziuk]

Divers also die close to home, as we see all too often, but look at it this way: Your folks in Georgia are probably far less likely to freeze to death during a cold snap, than if they decided to back pack across Tibet.

Folks are strange, of course, but you'd think they'd pack for hiking in Tibet weather. You'd think maybe when in Tibet they'd sit in a yurt and wait for the snowstorm to pass (I suspect snowstorm might be preferable to fermented yak milk, mind you). Threat analysis: driving home in Georgia: no threat. Hiking in Tibet: yes threat. I'm fairly sure statistically the riskiest part of their trip is the drive to Atlanta airport anyway.

As a vacation diver I would ask how far to the nearest hospital first and does it have the chamber second. Because I'd guesstimate my chances of getting bent somewhere on par or below those of getting some other medical emergency. I had a bacterial infection that went from "went to bed feeling perfectly fine" to "woke up with high fewer" to "dehydrated almost to the point of kidney damage" in about 24 hours. -- As an example of "some other medical emergency" I could get from an exotic bug unfamiliar to my immune system. If you intend to do deep deco dives where bacteria don't live you may rank your threats differently.

The other thing I know from experience is: it's the one you don't see's the one that gets you.

 

[letterboy]

Folks are strange.

Yes. They. Are.

 

[KevinNM]

As a vacation diver I would ask how far to the nearest hospital first and does it have the chamber second. Because I'd guesstimate my chances of getting bent somewhere on par or below those of getting some other medical emergency.

Whether it has a chamber is not at all the same as having a chamber you can get treated at.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

The tricky part is to compile a list of questions that is short enough and simply worded enough that you are actually likely to get a reply to each question rather than a blanket reply like "No worry. Each year hundreds happy customers." A few reasonable answers to a short list of imperfect questions is better than vague answers to a thorough list of questions.

Exactly my point. If we discuss questions here.. each person can come select whatever questions they feel are most important for them based on their risk tolerance and proposed trip!

One thing I also want to stress is that we all need to take responsibility for ensuring we have the personal resources to be as self sufficient as possible. IMHO those resources include the knowledge, skill and physical assets we bring with us.

I wonder if starting the contact with the operator with a statement such as, "I am trained to use O2 and will be bringing XX, I have had my shots and have DAN insurance. I understand your dives are primarily xxxx to xxx depth with xx current.. is there anything else that you feel would be helpful for me to know or do prior to arrival? What safety equipment would you advise me to bring? SMB, eperb etc (first show them you are taking responsibilty for yourself), Now I have a few questions Do you have O2 on board?
Do you use radio, sat phone or other to contact shore?"

I agree with Jim if we approach with a huge long line of questions we are likely to get the pat on the head, everything is fine answer and look like the paranoid customers they would rather avoid..

Letterboy is also thinking along the same lines as I am in that we need to do our art first. You shouldnt need the Dive operator to find out the nearest chamber that accepts recreational divers. We pay for DAN for a reason a lot of information should be obtained from them. If they are going to be able to help us in the region we are diving, they should be familiar with the resources and processes there.

 

[Kevrumbo]

A recent thread in A & I got me thinking. What questions should we ask about the safety equipment and emergency plans when we book to dive at a remote site.

At work one of the courses we teach is how to put together an emergency first aid plan. We also go out and do "Test Drills" to determine if the plan is effective.

Things we look at in determining if a Plan meets the requirements for Work Place codes of Practice and Legislature.

Risk analysis must take into account:

a) Number of people likely to be onsite at a given time
b) How long before emergency help can arrive
c) How long to transport to appropriate treatment facility
d) How risky are the activities at the site
e) Why kinds of injuries or illnesses are likely to occurr

Risk analysis is then used to determine

1) How many trained first aiders are appropriate and what level of training
2) What first aid equipment is required

Emergency plan should include

How first aid will be activated
Who/How emergency services are contacted
Who controls the scene
How the emergency equipment is brought to the scene
Who is responsible for documentation
Will someone be assigned to accompany the injured person to treatment centre
How will follow up be done and by whom (this should include debriefing and support services for witnesses and staff)
If required who will be liaison with officials, Investigators legal entities etc


I know this is pretty exhaustive but I am putting it out to trigger some discussion. What do the operators consider. What do you consider to be minimum criteria.. what are YOUR "Deal breakers"?

Example of a well equipped Liveaboard and properly planned & outfitted Dive Expedition Charter:

MV Winward - Bikini Atoll - Lust4Rust Wreck Diving Trips

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Example of a well equipped Liveaboard and properly planned & outfitted Dive Expedition Charter:

MV Winward - Bikini Atoll - Lust4Rust Wreck Diving Trips

THANKS! exactly what I am getting at!.....

I love the way they put the information so clearly on their website!

Bikini Atoll Trips

Risks Involved with Diving Isolated Areas

I don't want to scare you off, but with trips like this it is really important to really understand the magnitude of such a trip. This is not for everyone and with the sheer isolation of where we are, you really need to make an informed decision on whether you want to come or not.

I am actually hoping that some of the more remote dive operations might stumble on this thread. If they do, perhaps they will take it on board to advertise their current well thought out processes. If they don't have those processes in place perhaps they will see the value of developing them and using them to gain more business. Any outfit that makes it a priority to ensure as much safety as possible deserves as much of our business as we can give them IMHO

 

[Searcaigh]

Some very good and valid points in your post BoP, and I think as some of us get older we look for some safe diving whilst still wanting an adventure.

Back in the 80s and 90s I did hundreds of dives up and down the Saudi coastline of the Red Sea in very remote places, sometimes with only one buddy and other times with maybe up to ten of us. No cell phones (they were not invented yet) or radios (illegal), occasionally an oxygen cylinder, and on several occasions only in one vehicle with a female buddy (illegal) who would not be able to drive legally to obtain help.

Would I do it again now? Maybe, but I would prefer the safety of having communications and certainly having O2 handy just in case.

There are frequent coast guard stations but they would most likely arrest you for carrying a camera back then than provide any assistance.

Nearest chamber was in Jeddah, usually several hundred km away.