Scary story to relay...

[shadragon]

shadragon I'm so glad somebody has pointed this out
not only was it irresponsible but only dive professionals /instructors /assistant instructors are likely to have liability insurance.
who pays the bill if something goes wrong??

I don't think liability would be an issue in this case. As he lives in the U.S. we all know the lawyers there are kind and decent folks who would not try to take his house, cars and life savings in a wrongful death suit or anything... :blinking:

 

[boulderjohn]

Once you begin training as an instructor, you will begin to see how easy it is for something to go terribly wrong. Much of instructor training is learning control techniques to prevent those things in the first place and then deal with them effectively of they do occur.

Please, please, please do not do any beginner instruction without the proper training, certification, and insurance.

 

[Steve_Dives]

Just so everyone knows, both of my posts in this thread are litereally dripping with sarcasm. Thank you Steve_dives for letting me know some people were concerned about my intent!

No problem. No fair talking out of school! I sent the PM in case the thread slipped off your radar.

 

[cgilyeat]

I don't know which is more irresponsible - the original post, or JahJahwarrior letting his 11 year old brother use his gear in the pool.

Actually, I do know which, JahJahwarrior letting his brother use his gear, at least in the original post, there was a DM in the water.

 

[Captain12Pk]

Wow, that is definately a scary story, with potentially horrific consequences. However, Do we know it's true? Let's keep in mind that you heard it from your daughter, who overheard it from another conversation. Who knows how many times this story has been retold and or modified.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen some crazy stuff and heard some even crazier, so I'm not doubting your story. I just don't want to see the anyone on the Board scared from unverified rumors.

 

[friscuba]

Nearly 100% experience ear problems? Sorry not buying it. Even without lawsuits, no decent instructor wants to face an angry diver or parent about ear pain. And if it was as common as you say, you bet, someone or many would be going after PADI legally.

Equalizing to prevent squeeze is started, and taught, when first going under, certainly within 3 feet of the surface. Even an 8-foot deep pool is plenty deep enough for people to understand the consequences of not being able to equalize.

Sounds like you have an axe to grind with PADI, and I am surprised noone else has called you on it yet.

Oh, and curious as to where the laxness about kids going too depth for a discover course occurred. Hard to imagine it was in Cozumel. Lots of dive ops, sure, but it is a very closeknit community, and if this stuff was commonly going on, I expect others would put a stop to it. Jamaica, on the other hand... "No worries, mon."

I'm with you on this one. The big question is whether or not the intructors of the people Mike's talked to followed guidelines or not.

In the PADI Discover Scuba program there are flip charts or videos that cover pertinent information and specifically ear equalization with the phrase "If you feel discomfort during descent - Stop descent!". Instructors should emphasize that, but I do belive on occasion there are poepl who are going to ignore that anyway... but not 100%.

Having done a couple hundred intro dives, and witnessing hundreds more over the years, I can recall a few who complained of ear pain afterwards, and one who complained of injury a couple days later - her instructor was not a PADI instructor, but that's really irrelevant as this person claimed their doctor told them their eardrum had ruptured and the dive shop offered to talk to the doctor and pay the person's bill, the person walked away right then. I could see if discover scuba clients are dealing with instructors who ignore guidelines that there could be many problems, but I doubt it's that prevalent elsewise there'd be lots of lawsuits and the agencies would not sponsor the program.

As far as descents on the program, and also in the first dive of the OW course, they are supposed to be controlled descents on a downline with the instructor present, the people aren't just left on their own to get down. Stuff happens sometimes, but 100%?

 

[MikeFerrara]

As far as descents on the program, and also in the first dive of the OW course, they are supposed to be controlled descents on a downline with the instructor present, the people aren't just left on their own to get down. Stuff happens sometimes, but 100%?

Yes, on "the descent" standards require it to be a controled descent using a line or a sloping bottom. However since a "discover Scuba Diving" participant or a student doing OW 1 right after CW 1, they don't have any buoyancy control so they typically do LOTS of going up and down. They don't necessarily have a line or a sloping bottom during all those accidental ups and downs. The word "control" just doesn't apply here.

 

[Midnight Star]

Yep, way too deep for a discover scuba course ... too many things could go wrong, especially with uncontrolled or improper ascents. For me, that's a bad opening example - they might think, "hey! 80' ... man that's easy ... so easy, in fact i'm going 160' next time!". It's better, I think, to earn something over time, than to be given too much too soon.

 

[dbo88or]

I'm an open water diver and I can say that things often seem to be a little more lax in other countries. I recently dove in Puerto Vallarta with my brother and on the boat that we were on there were two teen boys (16 &17) that went down to 88 feet after only a discover scuba class. I was making small talk with them on the boat before the dive about where they'd been, number of dives, experience etc. They said that they'd only done pool sessions and this was their first open water dive. Before the dive the DM/Instructor? asked us how deep we wanted to go. To his credit he quickly added that we couldn't go deeper than 100 feet . My brother and I were immediately pretty nervous and reminded him of our experience level, but we were reassured and although I've read about accidents in which people were "convinced" to do something they knew was beyond their training, I have to admit that I went to that 88ft depth as well. :no

 

[BrianO]

Lots of leniency on this particular issue. The certifying agency that this DM is with would definitely have something to say about the violation of protocol. Maximum depth limits are in place for safety. Mitigating circumstances and the like aside. This would be grounds for an official reprimand. It is good to hear that they all made it, but not without at least one close call. As it was pointed out, there could have been a fatality. Diving is fun, but the rules are in place to provide a measure of safety as well as enjoyability.