Scubapro and parts for life questions

[Eric Sedletzky]

I bet this has little to no impact. Most users don't dive enough to warrant annual service. The cost of parts is beans compared to the labor costs. I know folks that fail to get there service in time the first year. Others have there service done even if they did less than 10 dives over the past year. Annual parts may cost Scubapro some $$$ but I'm guessing they make it up elsewhere.

Yeah, the parts costed Scubapro and the prices for their regs reflected that cost. I wonder if they will pass on the savings to the consumer now?
The annual service and FPFL program was a scam and everybody knows it.
The internet has everything to do with it.
Manufacturers are scrambling.

Scubapro parts kits average $40.
The way I know this is my LDS said that if I ever missed an annual service that's what they would charge me for parts on top of the labor charge of $65.
They also said that even if I didn't dive much in a calender year I was taking a big chance with my life by diving with a reg that missed an annual service, and they only ones that should ever perform an annual service on a scubapro reg is an authorized scubapro dealer.
That was 4 years ago and I haven't been in since.
I do my own now.

 

[RonFrank]

Service should be based on # of dives not some magic time. Honestly time is also a factor but only when one does not dive. I get mine serviced every 100 dives or every 4 years. That generally means I have it serviced every 2 years. I know folks that need service 2-4 times a year. They dive a lot as instructors.

 

[ZoCrowes255]

Service should be based on # of dives not some magic time. Honestly time is also a factor but only when one does not dive. I get mine serviced every 100 dives or every 4 years. That generally means I have it serviced every 2 years. I know folks that need service 2-4 times a year. They dive a lot as instructors.

There is wear and tear on low pressure seats in the second stage even when the reg is not in use. The orifice rests against the seat and creates an indentation and that will make a difference on the performance of the regulator. Usually it causes the second stage to leak a little bit. To a lesser extent the same thing happens to high pressure seats in the first stage.

Scubapro will still be offering free parts for life for any regulator purchased in a package with a Scubapro or Subgear BC and Computer.

 

[redacted]

There is wear and tear on low pressure seats in the second stage even when the reg is not in use. The orifice rests against the seat and creates an indentation and that will make a difference on the performance of the regulator. Usually it causes the second stage to leak a little bit.

I don't know that I would call it "wear and tear" but yes, many "rubber" parts tend to mold themselves into any position that they take for some time. O-rings and LP seat in scuba regs tend to do this but, in most cases, they continue to function for quite some time unless the "rubber" materials degrade. It is rare that this propensity to "take a set" is the cause of an actual failure that necessitates replacement. With and LP seat, a simple adjustment will quickly compensate with, perhaps, a slight decrease in performance. In many cases, users can prevent this from happening by storing their regulators in such a way that there is little to no contact between the LP seat and the orifice. In days gone by, manufacturers designed their 2nd stages to facilitate this safe storage. Now, a few have designed somewhat complex mechanisms to reduce or eliminate the problem. This is not a very good reason to require annual service.

To a lesser extent the same thing happens to high pressure seats in the first stage.

A comparable phenomena does not occur with HP seats since they only make contact with the orifice (hard seat) when under pressure. But, "wear and tear" during use may take its toll. In most cases, the materials used will withstand a lot of use before any serious performance effect are likely to occur. Except for the rare defective material that finds its way into these seats, this is also not a good justification for annual service. But it might well serve as the justification for periodic service after a specified usage time.


There are a couple good reasons (well, you can decide if they are good) that manufacturers recommend (require) annual service. One is an attempt to compensate for the lack of adequate user care. If regulators are not cleaned well after use, salts, Verdigris and other harmful deposits may build up where they can damage parts and interfere with good operation. For those people, even annual service may not be enough to prevent problems. Another is that it encourages a somewhat predictable flow of service business to the LDS. Think of it as the manufacturer helping insure that divers have reasonable access to air fills. Or, think of it as the manufacturer helping the LDS coerce divers into paying for unnecessary service.

My regulators tend to go 3 to 5 years or more between service. Some that get little use go much longer.

 

[jacksatlanta]

There are a couple good reasons (well, you can decide if they are good) that manufacturers recommend (require) annual service. One is an attempt to compensate for the lack of adequate user care. If regulators are not cleaned well after use, salts, Verdigris and other harmful deposits may build up where they can damage parts and interfere with good operation. For those people, even annual service may not be enough to prevent problems. Another is that it encourages a somewhat predictable flow of service business to the LDS. Think of it as the manufacturer helping insure that divers have reasonable access to air fills. Or, think of it as the manufacturer helping the LDS coerce divers into paying for unnecessary service.

Adding my .02 cents worth. I have seen more and more regulators coming in the last few years that look clean, shiny, and well cared for on the outside, only to open them up and find a fine layer of internal corrosion on all the metal surfaces. This baffled me for the longest time as I couldn't understand where the corrosion was coming from as there was no evidence of flooding or improper care and maintenance, plus the corrosion was very fine, very uniform, and covering almost every internal surface. The only thing these users had in common was that they all did 1-2 week long Caribbean trips each year. My best conclusion is that in these tough economic times some resorts are cutting back on filtration and more salt rich moisture is being entrained in their air. This moisture is then coating the insides of the reg and leaving a fine amount of salt behind. In a few cases this internal corrosion has caused parts to seize together and for chrome plating to start to flake off. One regulator company more than others ( Not Scubapro) has been particularly susceptible. Since manufacturers don't suggest we rinse the insides or their first stages, regular servicing may be the only way to prevent or minimize this type of corrosion. I haven't seen it a lot but definitely more frequently in the last 2 years.

 

[akscubaduck1]

As of October 15, 2011, the 'reinstatement' option will no longer be available.Consumers must bring in their regulators for service/inspection annually (within 13 months) to an Authorized SCUBAPRO Dealer or they will be removed from the PFL Program.To help your package sales; as of January 1, 2012, the PFL Program will only be available to consumers purchasing a complete package of SCUBAPRO BC, regulator, and computer (SUBGEAR BC and/or computer are acceptable).

 

[diveprof]

OK, no one is talking about the elephant in the room. I think the more interesting question is with the new developments of selling Scubapro on-line (yeah, supposedly within a specified margin - we'll see how long that lasts), an entry level SP line and the end of what was a big marketing point for SP (free parts for life) how will this impact SPs ability to charge a premium price for their gear and if they can maintain their market share. I would suspect that the brick and mortar stores are a bit uneasy about all this (they should be screaming at SP)while the on-line stores are seeing potential future $$$. This may be a short sighted view by SP as it may remove the edge they had on the competition. The proviso that if you buy a reg, computer and BC then they will cover the part for life is not nearly as meaningful and will not likely get them the "growth" that they think that this restriction will create. These are tough economic times. From a business standpoint, I would think that they would want to do more to separate themselves from the competition. I would bet the dive gear folks that offer service kits to folks who with training want to do their own servicing have a big smile on their face such as Edge (Hog regs)and Dive Rite. I hear that the Edge folks had a great DEMA. Likewise, I'm sure that the other major equipment folks are pleased to see the SP bar lowered.

 

[redacted]

Adding my .02 cents worth. I have seen more and more regulators coming in the last few years that look clean, shiny, and well cared for on the outside, only to open them up and find a fine layer of internal corrosion on all the metal surfaces. This baffled me for the longest time as I couldn't understand where the corrosion was coming from as there was no evidence of flooding or improper care and maintenance, plus the corrosion was very fine, very uniform, and covering almost every internal surface. The only thing these users had in common was that they all did 1-2 week long Caribbean trips each year. My best conclusion is that in these tough economic times some resorts are cutting back on filtration and more salt rich moisture is being entrained in their air. This moisture is then coating the insides of the reg and leaving a fine amount of salt behind. In a few cases this internal corrosion has caused parts to seize together and for chrome plating to start to flake off. One regulator company more than others ( Not Scubapro) has been particularly susceptible. Since manufacturers don't suggest we rinse the insides or their first stages, regular servicing may be the only way to prevent or minimize this type of corrosion. I haven't seen it a lot but definitely more frequently in the last 2 years.

I suspect it is the drop or 2 of water that is liable to collect in an unprotected tank valve as the boat makes its way to dive sites. I usually insist on taking care of my own gear and blow a little air out of the valve before I attach my 1st stage. I would have expected that sort of moisture to get blown right through the regulator leaving darkened brass but no real damage. What parts were actually seizing? That is the type of problem I would expect from rinsing rather than soaking after SW dives with the problem occurring at threaded connections that are not protected from SW by an o-ring.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Part of what's going on is the LDS/manufacturer enjoying the never ending flow of loose money by X generation recreation nuts is finally coming to an end.
Gone are the times of a thirty something couple coming in and saying we want to be certified and we want two full sets of gear and we don't care what it costs.
A lot of that stuff was paid for by free money from ATM'ing the house for more toys.
That's all gone now.
Now people have to pay for this stuff with real money. A lot of people plain don't have the money to just go out and take up any sport that catches their fancy.


Keeping regs clean inside:
Hook up the reg to a tank and soak it in a tub under pressure. If it's a piston type with holes around the side be sure to press the hose up to the holes to circulate fresh water through the piston cap, like the ones on a MK2.
Just using the dust cap for immersion can lead to water getting into the 1st stage and corroding the insides.
Not all dust caps seal well enough to be water tight.

If corrosion in first stages is caused by people going to tropical vacation spots for a week and using the operators tanks then I'd hate to see what the inside of those tanks look like :shocked2:

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

OK, no one is talking about the elephant in the room. I think the more interesting question is with the new developments of selling Scubapro on-line (yeah, supposedly within a specified margin - we'll see how long that lasts), an entry level SP line and the end of what was a big marketing point for SP (free parts for life) how will this impact SPs ability to charge a premium price for their gear and if they can maintain their market share. I would suspect that the brick and mortar stores are a bit uneasy about all this (they should be screaming at SP)while the on-line stores are seeing potential future $$$. This may be a short sighted view by SP as it may remove the edge they had on the competition. The proviso that if you buy a reg, computer and BC then they will cover the part for life is not nearly as meaningful and will not likely get them the "growth" that they think that this restriction will create. These are tough economic times. From a business standpoint, I would think that they would want to do more to separate themselves from the competition. I would bet the dive gear folks that offer service kits to folks who with training want to do their own servicing have a big smile on their face such as Edge (Hog regs)and Dive Rite. I hear that the Edge folks had a great DEMA. Likewise, I'm sure that the other major equipment folks are pleased to see the SP bar lowered.

I looked at Hog/Edge specifically for this reason; that parts are available to the end user.
Oxycheq also has a similar reg and they also offer parts to the consumer. You also mentioned Diverite.
I love my old vintage Aqualung double hose because I can get anything I want for it.
But I'm actually not having a problem finding black market parts for my scubapro regs anymore. The internet has really opened up some great doors thanks to the DIY brotherhood.
If Scubapro and the LDS were smart they would offer parts kits ligitimately to the end user. Not everybody will service their own regs and for the ones that do, at least the LDS will make some money on the kits and Scubapro will gain by being a company that is willing to adapt with the times and benefit from having a forward thinking attitude.