Seeking Opinions on Troubling Incident

[dumpsterDiver]

I would have taken the student to the surface and to shore. I would then have went down found the instructor and watched him and waited until he surfaced if I had the air. If not I would have made absolutely sure I could identify him and then gone to shore.

Then when he and his student were safely on shore, I would have ditched my gear in an instant and atempted to kick the instructors ass. I would NOT give him the opportunity to remove his gear. But hey, that's just me.

 

[Joe-Diver]

Then when he and his student were safely on shore, I would have ditched my gear in an instant and atempted to kick the instructors ass. I would NOT give him the opportunity to remove his gear. But hey, that's just me.

I seriously hope you're just being sarcastic.....

 

[halocline]

Then when he and his student were safely on shore, I would have ditched my gear in an instant and atempted to kick the instructors ass. I would NOT give him the opportunity to remove his gear. But hey, that's just me.

That's the spirit, dealing with violence through more violence. Sends just the right message to the students as well.

Come on, at least make an attempt at being reasonable. Assuming this happened as reported, filing a complaint with the instructor's agency and assault charges (if the student wants to) are the appropriate responses.

This is another thread where there are many impassioned "go get 'em" responses to a story that has only been told from one side.

 

[offthewall1]

This must not be that important to you if you're going to wait until summer to talk with the other owner. I would get this cleared up while it's still fresh in everyone's mind.

It is indeed important... but if the student doesn't wish to pursue it, my personal involvement as a shop owner - at least in my mind becomes - will I do business with that quarry again or not? The reason I said what I said is that I'm still on the fence as to whether I will subject my students, my staff or myself to what goes on in that quarry. I'm presently leaning toward simply not going back (we do have other options.) I'm having trouble justifying giving them another dollar of my money or having my students give them a dollar of theirs.

Sometime this week I will contact the owner of the quarry and discuss it with him. I will follow up in this thread after that discussion. Again, thank you all for your thoughts on this matter.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I was going to post to this thread earlier and I'm glad I did not. Having read all of the posts and see the differing opinions I am somewhat surprised that no one remarked on the blatant unprofessionalism and possible reckless behavior in the future of this instructor. If he gets away with this once he will do it again, make no mistake about that. He has marked his territory and is a risk to others and perhaps his students. There is never an excuse for an instructor to shove a student in this type of situation. Being that this is a training site used by alot of instructors it seems that he should have known that there was something amiss when a diver landed on the platform ALONE and I'm betting looking for his buddies. A real instructor may have been annoyed but his/her first reaction would be to determine IF THE DIVER WAS OK! At that point an exchange of information could have taken place and the diver would signal ok or use some sign to indicate he has lost his buddy.

Had it been me I would have immediately stopped my class and had the diver stay with my group for a reasonable amount of time before surfacing to determine if there was an emergency. By that time his instructor would hopefully show up and reclaim the lost sheep. If not we get them together on the surface and my guys would have to suffer through an EXTRA DIVE to complete their skills. THey would either be a little miffed if it was cold and dark with lousy conditions or ecstatic that they get to log another dive. In any case I would have demonstrated to them that they had picked the right instructor who puts diver safety above ALL ELSE!

Have their been occaisions where I've needed to move a diver who was not with me? Yes. But it's been one of those where we are doing skills and not giving them a nudge or pulling on a leg or arm would have resulted in them landing tank first on someone's head! But to push someone from behind is the mark of an individual whose mental stability I would question. Especially if they had their own student who saw this type of behavior and now thinks it's ok.

I would strongly advise that you do not wait to notify the quarry owner of this. It has the potential to grow into divers thinking it;s ok to just shove people out of their way and as a result their could be serious consequences when one of these people shoves the wrong person on the wrong day and a tragedy occurrs. As far as getting the cops involved if the student does not want to then you would have to do it yourself and while you'll have the report if the student won't cooperate it won't go far. But one of these days something will happen with this clown and either he or someone else will get hurt. Either underwater or when some less forgiving soul cold cocks him with a tank and gets arrested. You may have been able to prevent this. Will you be ok with that? I would not be.

Talk to the owner, report the guy and let the chips fall where they may. You will have done your part and your conscience will be clear. To those who think this is no big deal- You are wrong- for a responsible instructor this is a big deal. We put our students welfare and safety above all else. If you are not an instructor you will not understand this. You can't. We sit down and think about why we have to carry at least a million dollars of personal liability insurance and what could happen to us and our families if something goes wrong. You don't have that. So before you open your mouth about it not being a big deal, become an instructor yourself and put other peoples lives in your hands. Then you can say what you like. Otherwise.......

 

[Avonthediver]

I would have kicked his Ass... no questions asked when we got up their is and will never be a need for this.

 

[Avonthediver]

That's the spirit, dealing with violence through more violence. Sends just the right message to the students as well.

Come on, at least make an attempt at being reasonable. Assuming this happened as reported, filing a complaint with the instructor's agency and assault charges (if the student wants to) are the appropriate responses.

This is another thread where there are many impassioned "go get 'em" responses to a story that has only been told from one side.

sometimes you have to do what needs to be done.

 

[djanni]

Technically, the pushing would likely be considered battery and not assault, since physical contact was made.

It's not really the point of the thread, but frankly, if someone comes up and shoves me at random (barring a bus bearing down on me, or a shark, or whatever), I'm automatically going to assume that person does intend to harm me, because normal, stable people don't do that.

The event in question is done and can't be undone, but for those who think that no legal trouble could ever come from simply shoving someone, I wouldn't rely on that if one was considering the random platform shove as a training method or something.

You're entitled to do whatever feels right to you. That's what keeps the lawyers in business. If I were pushed off a park bench and actually got hurt I would consider some sort of action. To respond aggresively/physcally would probably end up with me being sued or hurt worse or both. If I wasn't hurt then taking action is, in my estimation, petty and not something I would do. To hell with the bastard.

 

[Ken abucs]

They were still in the water when I was time for use to leave and being a some what of a hot head I decided to leave and talk it over with my shop owner later in the day.

Thank you for having the professionalism and good sense not to escalate the situation.

 

[Dan Weidert]

As a shop owner I hear a lot of things... so before I jump to any rash decisions on this one, I'm asking for help from both sides of the aisle. I'd like to hear from recently certified students on this - as well as Instructors... as the incident involves both.

<<edit>>

So here are my questions for anyone with an opinion.

1. As a student, how would you feel if that happened to you and what would you want done about it?

2. As an Instructor, would you ever do such a thing and if so, what justification do you think you have to do so in a public quarry.

3. Had you been our Instructor in this incident, what would you have done underwater at the time of the incident or later after the incident if given the opportunity?

4. Would any of you go back to that quarry if you knew the assaulting Instructor was an Instructor working at that quarry's dive shop?

<<edit>>

In any event, thanks in advance for your thoughts on this one... has anyone else out there had a similar incident?

Rather than answers, I have questions.

Has this happened before? With other instructors for this owner? With this instructor?
What was the instructors perception of what happened? What was he thinking?

I realize you do not have that information. However, without it you are making a lot of assumptions. And you have probably heard what making an assumption does.

Dan