Shallow Narc?

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Never been narced. I've been down to 130'. I have seen people get narced at around the 85'-90' range.

As another poster replied to yet another poster in this thread, you have been narc'd before, especially at those depths, you just may not have realized it. Gas narcosis is not defined by whether or not the diver is able to determine their own degree of affliction, but rather by the much more physical and predictable levels of specific gases saturated in specific tissues along with their respective partial pressures.

Everyone gets narc'd, some display it more than others, but it would be physically impossible for your standard diver to make it to even 80 ft without their body undergoing some level of gas narcosis.
 
Everyone is narced on every dive. We usually don't notice it, but we are narced to a greater or lesser degree on every dive. Most people will start to feel it at about 100 feet, some feel it shallower, othes don't feel it until they are deeper, but not feeling it doesn't mean it isn't there.
 
I just learned*** that it's entirely possible to be narc'd at shallow depths. As such it makes me wonder what are the shallowest depths people have noticed it in themselves?

I made a joke about the fact that I'm grinning ear to ear all the time when diving and maybe I'm just always narc'd but my deepest dive has been to ~75 FSW and I certainly didn't notice any impaired actions on my part or any other sensations of being narc'd.



*** Yes, I probably should have known this already but most of the information I've read or been told implied or specifically stated divers don't start getting narc'd until about the 80 foot depth.

I haven't been narced down past 165', but I've seen people get hit by it around 50'. I think that's the shallowest I've observed.

Not noticing the effect doesn't mean it is not there. How many drunk people know and think they are drunk? Try to do the same 165' dive with proper mix, I bet you will notice the dive site is different.
 
Damn, I got narced this weekend at 90 ft. This time the beast appeared in a form of anexity about "we are all gonna die if we swim over that clif" where the bottom would go down for another 30 ft to 130 :) damn that was entertaining. Moved 10 ft up, the "end of the world" feeling changed to the normal dull feeling at that depth. When we have descended to 100 ft the beast forgot to show up :)
 
Maybe I have been narced and didn't realize it.

Twice now I have had this experience on the Vandenberg: 2nd dive of day each time, mild exertion at beginning of dive (first time was trying to follow faster insta-buddy, 2nd was surface swim to a different buoy followed by immediate descent) Both times I felt a disconcerting anxiety when I reached the deck (95fsw) that I had to consciously work through. It feels like I just can't breath well through the reg, and I have to fight a mild/strong desire to get back on the ascent line and thumb the dive. I slowed down, took measured medium breaths and within 1-2min the urge to get the hell outta there subsides (completely) and I am back to exploring with confidence. Is it likely that I am building up nitrogen during the exertion and what I am feeling is narcosis?
 
Maybe I have been narced and didn't realize it.

Twice now I have had this experience on the Vandenberg: 2nd dive of day each time, mild exertion at beginning of dive (first time was trying to follow faster insta-buddy, 2nd was surface swim to a different buoy followed by immediate descent) Both times I felt a disconcerting anxiety when I reached the deck (95fsw) that I had to consciously work through. It feels like I just can't breath well through the reg, and I have to fight a mild/strong desire to get back on the ascent line and thumb the dive. I slowed down, took measured medium breaths and within 1-2min the urge to get the hell outta there subsides (completely) and I am back to exploring with confidence. Is it likely that I am building up nitrogen during the exertion and what I am feeling is narcosis?

No you are building up CO2 during exertion. And is more narcy than Nitrogen AFAIK
 
No you are building up CO2 during exertion. And is more narcy than Nitrogen AFAIK

I notice this too. I tend to feel narced at 80-100' if I'm moving quickly or working hard. Conditions don't seem to influence it very much, aside from the presence or absence of visual references. It feels like mild vertigo/dizziness/euphoria and goes away completely when I stop and breathe for three or four breath cycles. I've been attributing it to CO2 as well.
 
CO2 and nitrogen are almost certainly additive when it comes to narcosis. Narcosis can be manifested by uneasiness or anxiety anyway, and if you add CO2, even WITHOUT any narcotic contribution from the gas, you heighten the anxiety. The body has a very strong reaction to elevated CO2 in most circumstances, because breathing is something your deep brainstem thinks is pretty important, and elevated CO2 means you aren't doing enough of it . . . :)

I think it's unfortunate that, in any discussion of narcosis, people focus on finding some clear abnormal feeling to identify that they are narced. Yes, severe narcosis can be manifested by euphoria, hallucinations, reduced responsiveness, unexplained anxiety and the like. But some of the scariest stories of narcosis, to me, are the ones where the diver is not aware of anything awry until he simply fails to perform up to usual standard.

My Fundies instructor told us a story that really made an impact on me. He was in Croatia, and his girlfriend wanted to dive. The only dive he could find near where he was, was a dive on a wreck at 100 feet. The only gas available was air. He decided to go along with her and do it. He was in a set of doubles. They descended on the wreck and reached the 100 foot level, where for the first time in his diving career, he had a big leak from behind him. He reached back and closed his valve, and the leak didn't stop, so he isolated and thumbed the dive. They did their first stop coming up, and he decided to check the valve again. Turned out it was open. Either he didn't close it, or he reopened it and didn't remember doing so -- but either way, this man who taught this procedure on a regular basis had messed it up without being one whit aware that he was doing so.

I have written here about a couple of episodes of just utter stupidity on my part, which have the common denominator that they have all occurred at or close to 100 feet. In none of them did I feel drunk or fuzzy or otherwise identifiably abnormal -- I just didn't process information the way I normally do, and that led to what could have been major mistakes.

As I said at the beginning of the thread, the difficulties I've seen with people remembering sequences of tasks and procedures, even in shallow water, has made me wonder from the beginning whether there is more cognitive impairment in shallow depths than we credit. Whether that's because of nitrogen, or because more people are CO2 retainers underwater than realize it (comfortable CO2 retention has been documented in divers before) I don't know. But I think you're missing the boat, if you are only diagnosing narcosis when someone feels as though he is drunk. That's just my opinion, based on my experiences of the last six years.
 
Not noticing the effect doesn't mean it is not there. How many drunk people know and think they are drunk? Try to do the same 165' dive with proper mix, I bet you will notice the dive site is different.

Very true. My 165'+ dive was at altitude, 40 degree water, 10-15' visibility, long surface swim with a free descent. When we hit bottom, we did a variety of timed skill assessments and all were within seconds of the same test at the surface. But you and others are right, we may be able to do these certain things, but something else more important we could fail at.
 
I get super paranoid when I am narked and IMHO paranoia isn't very fun. Usually it can happen starting around 70 ish but that really depends on so many factors like viz, temp, new environment maybe, a new buddy I have no confidence in, or even sometimes how I just happen to feel physically or maybe mentally that day. It can range from non-existent to down right freaky requiring me to stop and smell the roses for a minute to adjust and evaluate and calm down.
 
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