Should C-Cards Expire?

[Krisscuba]

You don't need a c-card to

Have and raise kids

own and use a gun

drink

swim in the ocean

fly a plane,..unless you take passengers, then you have to have a license. or you can wright experimental on the side and do what you want

climb mt Everest

Why a c-card for diving? oh yeh,... capitalistic monopoly!!!

 

[california]

Cute,

Some parents need a class,

All guns owners should have a class,

Drink too much and you’ll be ordered to a class,

Climb Mt. Everest without training? Can I barrow your regulator before you go?

 

[lairdb]

Krisscuba once bubbled...
You don't need a c-card to

Have and raise kids

own and use a gun

drink

swim in the ocean

fly a plane,..unless you take passengers, then you have to have a license. or you can wright experimental on the side and do what you want

climb mt Everest

Why a c-card for diving? oh yeh,... capitalistic monopoly!!!

Closer to anarchosyndicalism, actually -- a group of independents have agreed to cooperate in a self-regulating manner, with the express goal of doing so sufficiently well to remove the incentive for government intervention.

As to your examples, as a rational anarchist myself, I wish those were the case. Kids and ocean, yes -- the nanny state of California (and several otehrs, I believe) has mandated that you show a safety card before purchasing a gun, virtually every national government has limitied drinking to those with documentary proof of being above a certain age, flying a plane requires a considerable amout of paperwork (less than most think, but some), and both governments that govern approach routes to Everest require proof of skills and expedition funding before permitting access.

--Laird

 

[perpet1]

scubatexastony once bubbled...
.....but on the other hand.... if it's required, let's start at the instructor level and go from there.... maybe we can weed some out that need OW classes themselves....JMO

tony

<edit>ps Bren and I will be renewing our CHL's (required every 4 yrs.) and you must review and re-test in both text and proficiency.
heck, you just get your eyes checked for a DL.....go figure

Last I checked there were annual requirements to maintaing your active status for NAUI instructors.

Pete

 

[Krisscuba]

All agencies have annual requirements,...but, as long as that check rolls in signed with 3 digits, your renewed.

In the beginning there was a threat of government intervention, so we self regulated.

We put up with the SCUBA cert and Instructor cert,..then tolerated it being broken down to AOW, Rescue Divemaster, Asst Inst. Then the Rescue broken down to Rescue, medic first aid etc. Including all of those specialties designed for people that do not realy dive, or are not in a dive local to keep busy and money rolling in for the shop,..i.e. under water basket weaving.

Originally the air was not dried so we put dip tubes in the tank valve, then decided it would be a good idea to open them up once a year and look inside and dump the water out,..then we started getting charged for VIP's then they came up with VIP+ to triple the cost. If I blew a burst disc,.. I would loose an airfill, have to pay a shop $12 for the disc assy, + install, Pay $15 for a VIP+ and for another air fill. ouch,..let go of my arm!!!!!!!!!

Now you want to put an expiration on c-cards,..so a failing shop can stay afloat,.. those of us that actually dive do not need it!!!! If your teaching is so lame and your people dive so little,.. let them take a refresher when they need it.

When monoplies step over the line,..government always gets involves. Should anyone actually introduce c-card expiration,..I will introduce legislation for government intervention. Since it is about money, the agency may not wish to push it.

If you are in one of those police states like CA, introduce local requirements.

Tell me how does the international communitee feel about it! People visiting Hawaii, Florida etc, from Japan, Canada etc. Do you think that they will come if their ceritification is good anywhere in the world except the United States.

While working in Austrailia in 82,..I was told that they thought of us as a country of those that those that can do....those that cannot teach!!!!!

Those of you that cannot,..stay away from those of us that dive,.. can!!!

 

[shiro85]

MaresMan1 once bubbled...
I agree with most of what's been said in this post against the expiration of C cards. To me it would not solve the problem and would drive costs up.

On the other hand, you can read about all of the accidents that are happening, mostly from the OW and AOW group of divers.

Statistical Fallaices warning:

OW & AOW are the vast majority of the divers, so they should expected to be the vast majority of the accident victims.

So, how about using a sticker on the C card similar to vehicle registration sticker, to the last dive activity date. Make it inexpensive and only for divers with OW or AOW cards. This would alert shops to the divers activity and experience level and prompt the shop/instr/guide to request a refresher.

No: it should be ALL or NONE. As soon as you try to rationalize any exemption, the entire concept of a quality/safety check is torpedoed.

And FWIW, I've found it interesting that ~20 dives seems to be the number that people are throwing out there as a measure of currency. Since it only takes 4 dives to get your original OW certification, this seems to be pretty serious overkill.

If the intent is to merely make sure the diver doesn't become unsafe due to lack of practice, if you can get certified on 4 dives, that number also makes sense for maintenance. If you think that that's inadequate, then you had better also say that 4 dives for a C-Card is inadequate too!

 

[Krisscuba]

If a person ends up in the emergency room on a drug over dose,...and the doc asks what he took..If the person says,..only 3 aspirin,.....should I care what happens to him.

If a person jumps in the water tens years after certification with only his certification dives under his belt ,...should I care what happens to him?

The BAR association forbids lawyers to have sex with their clients,..why?

Too prevent the clients for being charged twice for basically the same service.

We can micro manage the c-card a little further.

I remember when there was a scuba cert and OW cert. The OW required actuall ocean, open water. That kind of went away,..now people are certified in deep pools, fish tanks and catfish junction ponds,...then they can jump on a rig tender in the GUlf, go 20 miles off shore and jump in 100'.,...but their c-card should expire. Back in catfish junction, there is snow on the ground, so normally they would do their renew cert in the pool,..it is being cleaned. That's ok,...the standards will allow deviation so not to allow delay of money coming in,....classroom simulation will be acepted!

Most boats in FLorida require to see a c-card and list the last three dives on the liability waiver. So you will list three catfish junction dives and beside put a small cs for (Classroom Simulation)

So lets make more money,....you are climbing on a boat in Florida, so lets see your boat specialty cert,.....You have one from catfish junction that is normally done on a pantoon boat is glass water,..but they lost the boat keys so you simulated it from a dock. That should be close enough for a 50' rig tender, 20 miles off shore bobbing in seas,.. we'll give you some tips on that 15' giant stride jump off the boat.

Your in Florida and there is a 40 degree difference in water temp from CA, so you will need a Florida scuba specialty cert.

It is Manatee season so you will need to show me your Manatee awareness cert.

We will be diving over 60' so you will have to show me your deep diver cert, and rent a pony bottle and computer.

I see you have put down that you are a smoker,...we have determined that regular air is not good enough for smokers,...you will have to rent NITROX gear,...your NITROX cert please.

Are taking that camera,......we found an article where a diver held his breath taking a picture 20 years ago,...you will need a Underwater photo cert.

You want that mask strap,..I will need to see your Equipment specialty cert,..or I can sell you a very nice backup mask.

It was just reported that the vis is only 15',...you will need to show me your night/low vis cert. and rent primary and backup lights.

Also PADI has just ecided to make Rescue diver certs expire annually like DM and instructors. All you have to do for this is take a annual medic first aid, cpr class and send PADI $200

OK that almost does it,..you have met all of the requirements for you first dive,..let's move on to the second. It is a spearfish dive on Black Bart a old tug,

Wreck diver cert please

PADI speargun safety course please

Under water hunter please

Florida spearfishing regulation course card please

Fishing license please.

Zillion dollar liability in case you spear someone insurance please.


Now I have good news and bad news

The bad news,..the boat left 20 min ago.

Good news,...I can give you a Equipment specialty course while they are out and you can take the afternoon boat.

 

[sheck33]

shiro85 once bubbled...


if you can get certified on 4 dives, that number also makes sense for maintenance. If you think that that's inadequate, then you had better also say that 4 dives for a C-Card is inadequate too!

hehe, i think it has already been firmly established that 4 dives to get certified is an absolute joke

what should be done is removing the possibility of sueing someone else for one's own stupidity.

if you want to go into a wreck at night at 250ft on air without the required training to do so, go ahead but dont be upset if you get hurt or die and then sue the boat operator for it.

 

[tinman694]

Krisscuba once bubbled...
If a person ends up in the emergency room on a drug over dose,...and the doc asks what he took..If the person says,..only 3 aspirin,.....should I care what happens to him.

If a person jumps in the water tens years after certification with only his certification dives under his belt ,...should I care what happens to him?

The BAR association forbids lawyers to have sex with their clients,..why?

Too prevent the clients for being charged twice for basically the same service.

We can micro manage the c-card a little further.

I remember when there was a scuba cert and OW cert. The OW required actuall ocean, open water. That kind of went away,..now people are certified in deep pools, fish tanks and catfish junction ponds,...then they can jump on a rig tender in the GUlf, go 20 miles off shore and jump in 100'.,...but their c-card should expire. Back in catfish junction, there is snow on the ground, so normally they would do their renew cert in the pool,..it is being cleaned. That's ok,...the standards will allow deviation so not to allow delay of money coming in,....classroom simulation will be acepted!

Most boats in FLorida require to see a c-card and list the last three dives on the liability waiver. So you will list three catfish junction dives and beside put a small cs for (Classroom Simulation)

So lets make more money,....you are climbing on a boat in Florida, so lets see your boat specialty cert,.....You have one from catfish junction that is normally done on a pantoon boat is glass water,..but they lost the boat keys so you simulated it from a dock. That should be close enough for a 50' rig tender, 20 miles off shore bobbing in seas,.. we'll give you some tips on that 15' giant stride jump off the boat.

Your in Florida and there is a 40 degree difference in water temp from CA, so you will need a Florida scuba specialty cert.

It is Manatee season so you will need to show me your Manatee awareness cert.

We will be diving over 60' so you will have to show me your deep diver cert, and rent a pony bottle and computer.

I see you have put down that you are a smoker,...we have determined that regular air is not good enough for smokers,...you will have to rent NITROX gear,...your NITROX cert please.

Are taking that camera,......we found an article where a diver held his breath taking a picture 20 years ago,...you will need a Underwater photo cert.

You want that mask strap,..I will need to see your Equipment specialty cert,..or I can sell you a very nice backup mask.

It was just reported that the vis is only 15',...you will need to show me your night/low vis cert. and rent primary and backup lights.

Also PADI has just ecided to make Rescue diver certs expire annually like DM and instructors. All you have to do for this is take a annual medic first aid, cpr class and send PADI $200

OK that almost does it,..you have met all of the requirements for you first dive,..let's move on to the second. It is a spearfish dive on Black Bart a old tug,

Wreck diver cert please

PADI speargun safety course please

Under water hunter please

Florida spearfishing regulation course card please

Fishing license please.

Zillion dollar liability in case you spear someone insurance please.


Now I have good news and bad news

The bad news,..the boat left 20 min ago.

Good news,...I can give you a Equipment specialty course while they are out and you can take the afternoon boat.

You make this sound far fetched?! It will happen

 

[tinman694]

Krisscuba once bubbled...
If a person ends up in the emergency room on a drug over dose,...and the doc asks what he took..If the person says,..only 3 aspirin,.....should I care what happens to him.

If a person jumps in the water tens years after certification with only his certification dives under his belt ,...should I care what happens to him?

The BAR association forbids lawyers to have sex with their clients,..why?

Too prevent the clients for being charged twice for basically the same service.

We can micro manage the c-card a little further.

I remember when there was a scuba cert and OW cert. The OW required actuall ocean, open water. That kind of went away,..now people are certified in deep pools, fish tanks and catfish junction ponds,...then they can jump on a rig tender in the GUlf, go 20 miles off shore and jump in 100'.,...but their c-card should expire. Back in catfish junction, there is snow on the ground, so normally they would do their renew cert in the pool,..it is being cleaned. That's ok,...the standards will allow deviation so not to allow delay of money coming in,....classroom simulation will be acepted!

Most boats in FLorida require to see a c-card and list the last three dives on the liability waiver. So you will list three catfish junction dives and beside put a small cs for (Classroom Simulation)

So lets make more money,....you are climbing on a boat in Florida, so lets see your boat specialty cert,.....You have one from catfish junction that is normally done on a pantoon boat is glass water,..but they lost the boat keys so you simulated it from a dock. That should be close enough for a 50' rig tender, 20 miles off shore bobbing in seas,.. we'll give you some tips on that 15' giant stride jump off the boat.

Your in Florida and there is a 40 degree difference in water temp from CA, so you will need a Florida scuba specialty cert.

It is Manatee season so you will need to show me your Manatee awareness cert.

We will be diving over 60' so you will have to show me your deep diver cert, and rent a pony bottle and computer.

I see you have put down that you are a smoker,...we have determined that regular air is not good enough for smokers,...you will have to rent NITROX gear,...your NITROX cert please.

Are taking that camera,......we found an article where a diver held his breath taking a picture 20 years ago,...you will need a Underwater photo cert.

You want that mask strap,..I will need to see your Equipment specialty cert,..or I can sell you a very nice backup mask.

It was just reported that the vis is only 15',...you will need to show me your night/low vis cert. and rent primary and backup lights.

Also PADI has just ecided to make Rescue diver certs expire annually like DM and instructors. All you have to do for this is take a annual medic first aid, cpr class and send PADI $200

OK that almost does it,..you have met all of the requirements for you first dive,..let's move on to the second. It is a spearfish dive on Black Bart a old tug,

Wreck diver cert please

PADI speargun safety course please

Under water hunter please

Florida spearfishing regulation course card please

Fishing license please.

Zillion dollar liability in case you spear someone insurance please.


Now I have good news and bad news

The bad news,..the boat left 20 min ago.

Good news,...I can give you a Equipment specialty course while they are out and you can take the afternoon boat.

You make this sound far fetched?! It will happen