Should young divers use computers (split from Which computer thread)

[M_Bipartitus]

Just for discussion, would any of the "timer and tables" crowd change their opinion in light of the "dry" dive computers (eRDP and such) that PADI teaches now. If a student can get through OW and not need to know tables very well, is it a disservice to expect them to use tables? I don't know exactly how the eRDPs are in the curriculum, but it could make it much easier for a non dive computer user to get away without really knowing anything about tables and profiles. Definitely easier to forget tables and use the little gadget when they are out on the dive boat. That is until someone drops a tank on it and wrecks your trip.

What if, in 5-10 years, the only "tables" used in OW are electronic?

 

[TMHeimer]

Dude, this thread is split off from another thread. Did you read the other thread? The teenager in question has nearly as many dives as you, and he can do a 400 meter swim in a time that would score a 5!

Yes, I read it. You have a good memory re the 400. Hmmm.. "civil"?

 

[Dallas Pom]

I'm a new diver, but not a young one. I recently went though OW and didn't use or train on a computer. Since I was taught tables, I, presumably, would use the computer as a depth gauge. I found the computer cumbersome as a depth gauge so I bought a Bourdon tube depth gauge. I have a watch and know how to use it. I can't hear the assent rate alarm, so that's useless. In short, the computer is a data recorder to be examined on the surface.

I'm not sure what the big deal is, really. That's just my personal feeling based on no experience with what other divers do. I don't use my computer because I am not comfortable making dives where it would be be useful yet. When I am comfortable I will have worked out how to read the computer, second nature. I practice that. That being said, I am not certain it will ever be useful.

One time I rented a particular airplane after an instrutor checked me out in it. It had a bunch of navigation equipment on it I had never used. I wasn't trained on it, I just used it--but not as the only means of navigation.

 

[GrandpaScuba]

I kinda think it's a bad idea for any new diver, regardless of age, to start right off with a computer for reason's others have stated. Learn the basics of square profiles, then add the computer.

Yeah!! Make 'em learn to ride a horse before you let them have the car!

While I'm an old-time diver and think that everyone should fully understand the tables, even I'm not so anachronistic as to deny a new diver the use of a computer. Let's face it. Computers are the state of the art and to deny someone the use of up-to-date safety equipment, just because we think they should learn to be without it first, is plain negligence.

If new divers aren't capable of using and interpreting a computer correctly, perhaps it's because instructors don't spend enough time on computer use. More and more of the certification agencies are announcing that they are going to phase out the old-style tables and teach computers only. Remember, the purpose of the OW Scuba class is to teach customers how to safely use the equipment. This means teaching them to use the equipment they buy now. Not the equipment they would have bought 20 years ago.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yeah!! Make 'em learn to ride a horse before you let them have the car!

While I'm an old-time diver and think that everyone should fully understand the tables, even I'm not so anachronistic as to deny a new diver the use of a computer. Let's face it. Computers are the state of the art and to deny someone the use of up-to-date safety equipment, just because we think they should learn to be without it first, is plain negligence.

If new divers aren't capable of using and interpreting a computer correctly, perhaps it's because instructors don't spend enough time on computer use. More and more of the certification agencies are announcing that they are going to phase out the old-style tables and teach computers only. Remember, the purpose of the OW Scuba class is to teach customers how to safely use the equipment. This means teaching them to use the equipment they buy now. Not the equipment they would have bought 20 years ago.

Can't say I disagree with what you say at all. I'm just saying that doing at least a few dives with tables and SPG monitoring at the very beginning is the best way to go. Kind of like the old arguement 40 years ago that you should know how to add 2+2 on paper before using a calculator. I'm sure many divers have a thorough enough understanding of basic dive theory with, say, as few as 10 dives and studying, while others may need many more. It's not whether you can fluidly use tables or not (another thread), but that you should have a thorough knowledge of decompression theory. And I agree that this can be achieved with more time spent in OW classes on computers--I think this should happen and maybe it is to a point now. I got no training in computers 4 years ago and they certainly were the norm back then.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

I say we just ban computers altogether! And, while we're at it lets ban every other device of convenience. Fins (you have feet don't you?!), BC's (use your lungs), thermal protection (if you can't dive without thermal protection, too bad, you're just not tough enough to be a diver), low-volume masks (learn to clear a real mask) and molded weights or bags (hold on to a rock). Or, we can understand that a PDC is a natural progression in equipment (much like the equipment I noted at the beginning), and let folks make their own informed decision about tables. If, they know them then they have a Plan B if their PDC goes down and they can continue to dive. If they don't choose to learn the tables and occasionally practice them, then Plan B is going to be land based. Why shove something down someones throat that isn't really a safety issue. If they're stupid enough to simply dive without any NDL (Table or PDC based), then forcing them to become experts at using tables would probably be useless. They would just find other ways to kill themselves. And how would you ensure that a diver has remained proficient in the use of tables (use it or lose it)?

 

[budgy]

Just for discussion, would any of the "timer and tables" crowd change their opinion in light of the "dry" dive computers (eRDP and such) that PADI teaches now. If a student can get through OW and not need to know tables very well, is it a disservice to expect them to use tables? I don't know exactly how the eRDPs are in the curriculum, but it could make it much easier for a non dive computer user to get away without really knowing anything about tables and profiles. Definitely easier to forget tables and use the little gadget when they are out on the dive boat. That is until someone drops a tank on it and wrecks your trip.
.
What if, in 5-10 years, the only "tables" used in OW are electronic?

If or when your training a person, you cant do more than pass on what skills and advice you have, however flawed it is, every time its proved wrong knowledge grows. Sadly our nation has lost many important skills in my life time. As for diving, we teach the syllabus, it changes.

 

[AbyssalPlains]

What do computers have to do with age? Using tables doesn't help you one bit to better understand the physiology behind it all than a computer, in my opinion. If someone "gets it" they get it, if they don't they don't regardless of which of the two crutches they use.

 

[TMHeimer]

The eRDPml is great, especially for multi level dive planning, but for any planning. Tables are good in that they visually lay out all the max depths and NDLs for them. A general knowledge that your max time at 100 fsw on air is 20 minutes, at 80 ft is 30 mins., etc., without having to look it up anywhere, is important to have.

 

[Blackwood]

Tables are good in that they visually lay out all the max depths and NDLs for them.

IMO, since most people (wreck divers aside) tend to dive multi-level profiles with much more frequency than square profiles, that information is trivial.

A working understanding of realistic profiles and how changes in depth affect gas loading it much more useful, and that's rather difficult to illustrate with tables.