Solo diving?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Edited to illustrate a point. :wink:




I agree. If the guy had taken diplomacy and communication lessons, then I think his opinions would have been much more widely lauded amongst the diving community. A lot of what he said at that time was just as beneficial for the community as the insights offered by people like Exley. However, Exley got praised, Irvine got (generally) scorned.

'DIR' was (initially) presented as a strict methodology... a 'dogma'. Exley presented 'principles'. In what he wrote, Exley was just as vehement in his opinions - but avoided being (mis)interpreted because he didn't deal with absolutes on a micro-management basis. He dealt with the generic 'big picture', wheras Irvine dealt with specifics - procedures and configurations.

I think we can all agree about the existence of 'strokes' - but our definition of a 'stroke' varies depending on whether we define them by what they don't do, rather than by what they do. It also matters whether our definition derives from an assessment of someones actual diving capacity... or whether it's simplistically based upon whether someone adheres to a methodology or dogma that we ourselves believe in.

A dogmatic evaluation says: "You aren't doing it like this, therefore it is unsafe".

A principled evaluation says: "You are doing this, but you aren't doing that. On that basis, you are unsafe".

Specifically, with regard to solo diving activities, the difference in approach can be illustrated by:

A dogmatic evaluation says: "You must have team support to mitigate X, Y and Z risks".

A principled evaluations says: "X, Y and Z risks exists. You must effectively mitigate those risks".

With respect to solo diving.... what matters? Does it matter if a diver adheres to a team diving doctrine - thus making any solo activity 'stroke-like'? Or does it matter more if a diver adheres to intelligent diving principles, ensuring that they have prepared for and reasonably mitigated any foreseeable risks?

"Saying solo diving is safe is a lie, avoiding entanglements doesn’t make sense, you can’t plan for everything,"

You can plan for everything reasonably foreseeable. The dive community, as a body, does understand the risks and does have ways to mitigate risks.

This applies to any diving activity, not just solo. Cave diving has risks. Decompression has risks. Wreck penetration has risks. You can't plan for everything - but you can plan to mitigate reasonable foreseeable risks.

"Entanglements cannot always be identified or even noticed, you get stuck then what?"

What would a GUE trained cave-diver do if they were entangled in a restriction, where their team couldn't assist them? Entanglements can be dealt with or they cannot. Appropriate training, practice and psychological control will resolve these issues in most circumstances. If they can't resolve the issue, then the issue obviously wasn't reasonably foreseeable.

people have heart attacks>no buddy means you are dead.

Does that differ in a cave? Or on a staged decompression dive?

The risk of serious medical illness occurring during a scuba dive presents a significant and invariably fatal risk to any scuba diver. Any step beyond shallow open-water diving complicates those risks. There are a multitude of factors which impact on survivability in this instance - being alone is just one of them. Depth, overhead, distance from professional medical care are others.

1. You shouldn't _________ because you might have a heart attack.

(a) Solo Dive.
(b) Cave Dive.
(c) Dive beyond 60ft.
(d) Dive in locations more than 20 minutes from a primary care medical facility.
(e) Get off the couch.


If you have a heart attack on a solo dive, then nobody will assist you. You will probably die, if incapacitated by that medical event. Likewise, being surrounded by the best diving team in the world won't mitigate the risks or repercussions of a heart attack, if you have that heart attack 800m into a cave system. It would just mean your body got recovered quicker.

Solo, cave, deco...whatever... the danger of heart attack is mitigated by being health conscious in your lifestyle, obtaining frequent medical check-ups... and being honest in your self-assessment of whether to conduct a dive or not.

Equipment Fails

Equipment failure can be mitigated as a risk. Effective training should deal with this. Equipment failure is a comparable risk to the solo diver, as it is to the diver in an overhead (hard or virtual) environment.

People abuse their know limits, thinking they can overcome obstacles

Diver mindset can be dealt with during effective training. Again, this is just as applicable to technical or cave diving, as it is to solo diving.

Exceeding, or not understanding, your limits in relation to the dives you undertake... is a fundamental diving failure. It doesn't matter what diving activity that pertains to.. what matters is whether the diver has the training, skills, procedures, equipment and mindset to mitigate risks and reasonably assure their safety.

Overall Solo Diving is Stupid, as you cannot address all of these problems

When viewed from the perspective of 'risks versus mitigation', the only risk mitigation technique that cannot be applied on solo dives is the concept of team/buddy support. The absence of one single factor, does not negate the presence of other factors. Providing that all reasonably foreseeable risks can be mitigated, I don't see how you can differentiate on the grounds of safety purely on the basis of how risks are mitigated.

Team diving is an effective risk mitigation technique.
Equipment and gas redundancy is an effective risk mitigation technique.
Diving within your personal limits, based on effective self-assessment of capability versus demand, is an effective risk mitigation technique.
Maintaining a healthy lifestyle, getting medical checks frequently and not diving if you feel unwell is an effective risk mitigation technique.
Being properly equipped and trained to deal with entanglements is an effective risk mitigation technique.
Precision dive and gas planning is an effective risk mitigation technique.
...and so on and so on and so on....

The 'problems' you have highlighted primarily concern the diver, not the dive. They are all generic problems - irrespective of the dive environment or activity.

The 'solution' (team/buddy support) you are suggesting is one solitary risk mitigation technique. It's absence does not automatically dictate irresponsibility or a decrease in overall safety - providing that the diver concerned has actually sought to effectively mitigate the risks that they will be exposed to.


Tl, dr
 
If you take an unsafe activity like cave diving, but do it in the safest possible way; are you then safe - or just the safest you can be doing something unsafe?

I'm just wondering because I do something unsafe, solo diving, but try to do so in the safest way possible and am curious what the double standard is. Is it that you enjoy cave diving so it is ok but don't enjoy solo diving so it isn't?

Or is there a divinely inspired, manifest destiny kind a reason for intentionally crawling into a hole underwater when you don't have to, that justifies the risk. And is that juxtaposed against an axis of evil professed, doctrine of terror kind of reason that makes solo diving not so?
 
Last edited:
When I need a buddy I simply have to grab a DV and open a valve... I carry 2 of these slings when I dive Solo in addition to my twinset... That gives me 4 independant breathing systems.

I do not like dogma when diving is concerned.
As I've said before... Solo is not for beginners. with the proper training/experience/equipment/mind/health it can be safe enough to practise. If you have dogmatic views about how wrong it is, then don't do it.

I am more worried about the OW Sport Diver who is 20 ft away from his buddy who has his back to him trying to take a picture with an Octo that is of the cheap kind, stuck to some stupid plastic/metal clip on his jacket BCD.

I still think that DevonDiver is correct and that we should not be narrow minded dogmatic divers.
 
I realize that George is revered, but his beliefs are slightly flawed and possibly misunderstood.
So are yours ...


I think for the most part this is because instructors of the two main training organizations (padi/naui) teach scuba as a means to make a living, cutting standards and not teaching properly and are only in it to make money. In effect the strokes are those who teach everything as they think they know what they are talking about. How many instructors stop taking classes thinking they know everything? How many instructors conduct a ten minute dive on their knees, go to the surface and then bring the crew back down for dive number two?
Your comments show an ignorance of both the agencies and a great many of the instructors who represent them. They make nice internet speech, but for the most part they do not reflect reality. Frankly, you sound very much like a bunch of newly DIRF'ed people I've met over the years ... all dogma and not much real experience to back up your opinions.

I don’t think you can say that people are natural strokes, everyone should not be able to dive that is true which goes to the discretion of the instructor so every person certified by him/her reflects on the instructors diving ability, making the instructor the natural stroke.
Would you care to translate that into a comprehensible statement?

Instructors are responsible for what they teach, and how they teach. They are in no way responsible for decisions and actions of students once they leave the class. People have a mind of their own. One of the most important skills a dive instructor can teach is how to use it underwater ... which is often not the same as how one goes about making decisions above the surface.

Being Ignorant doesn’t make people “strokes,” Strokes make people strokes.
Attitude makes people strokes ... and I've met several who have trained with the DIR agencies. Training and attitude are two entirely different things ... one is the responsibility of the instructor, the other is the responsibility of the student.

Saying solo diving is safe is a lie, avoiding entanglements doesn’t make sense, you can’t plan for everything,
Bullsh!t ... in any dive, even a benign reef dive, you can't plan for everything. Nor do you have to. What you have to do is plan and prepare to dive within the limits of your training, and develop adequate skills and confidence to work through problems you encounter that you may not have planned for.

As someone who dives inside caves and wrecks, does deep cold-water dives in limited visibility, and has done solo dives requiring staged decompression, I can say that no dive is "safe" ... it's up to each of us at every level to decide what risks we are willing to take, how to mitigate those risks, and conduct our dives accordingly. We, and we alone, are responsible for the consequences of our actions. This is as true on a simple reef dive as it is inside a cave. And it is as true with a buddy as it is without one.

Entanglements cannot always be identified or even noticed, you get stuck then what?
Dear lord ... have you ever been entangled? I have, and it's not a big deal if you keep your head and are prepared to get yourself out of it. Worst case, you remove your rig, deal with the problem, and put the rig back on. If you're incapable of resolving that particular problem, then no ... you shouldn't be solo diving. But don't make it out to be a deal-breaker ... it's not.

people have heart attacks>no buddy means you are dead.
With a heart attack underwater, in most cases you're dead whether you have a buddy or not ... that's life.

Equipment Fails
Rarely ... and if you're solo diving, that's what redundance is for.

People abuse their know limits, thinking they can overcome obstacles
OK ... this is the first legitimate thing you've posted so far. Yes, people abuse their knowledge limits ... they do so regardless of training. Humans are very good at denial ... it's one of our most universal traits. We're also very good at thinking we're better at some things than we really are. I see this commonly in scuba divers of all stripes ... including DIR-trained scuba divers. That has nothing to do with training ... it has to do with experience and attitude.

Overall Solo Diving is Stupid, as you cannot address all of these problems
Sure you can ... if you choose to, and do so with some semblance of reality.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
I had no idea that diving was so dangerous!

I guess I could take up golf, but I've got too much dive gear, and no clubs.



Bob
----------------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

A man's got to know his limitations.
Harry Callahan
 
I always run solo, usually in a park that often has no one around. If I have a severe heart attack running I'm probably going to die before anyone comes to help. Should I quit running?
 
Hey Be nice, they prob, didn't realize we have a "Solo" forum, and not everyone know how to use search functons.
 
This thread has really opened my eyes!!!

I've been solo diving for about 10 years. My cave dives - solo on a rebreather, no less - are now lasting up to 7 hours & often take me a mile or so back in the caves. Now that I know how dangerous solo diving really is I'm thinking about stopping diving altogether.

Unfortunately, I just bought all of this new stuff for the year ahead and my wife would be pissed if I didn't use it, so guess I'll have to go at least one more year just to keep her happy.

But thanks to everyone for explaining to me why solo diving is such a bad idea.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom