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MikeFerrara once bubbled...


A spair air is about the right size to have if you want to take your air in an enema. Ponys are for riding or in bad times maybe eating. This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time

IMO, the class claims to solves a problem that shouldn't exist. Divers aren't good enough to stay with a buddy so we send them out alone. IMO, anyone who feels they need this class shouldn't dive alone. Its a scam. Divers wish to travel alone and they and other divers don't mesh so instead of changing the system that creates the situation we come up with a money making gimick like the SDI solo class.

Nobody teaches buoyancy control, trim or effective gas planning but the'll teach someone to stick a spare air in their belt and give them a solo ticket.



I've never permanantly lost my buddy...the only times I've "lost" my buddy were on two training dives getting new gear and drysuits dialed in in low visibility...quick turn...buddy's gone...surface...find buddy...laugh...figure out that the dump valve is not set right...continue dive shoulder to shoulder. If I don't have a buddy, I'm not diving.

Teamwork and team skills are what it is all about. If the system is creating crappy divers, guess why I only dive with people who share the same dive philosophy? I am so sick and tired of the great lie that dive agencies push that "anyone can be a diver" and "anyone can be an instructor"...you know what...this is creating a whole bunch of people who feel attacked and deeply offended when they are told that they have been "sold a lie" and they have terrible skills. Diving is a sport in which failure equals death. Why do so few people take the SKILLS of the sport so lightly? The same people who will spend hours at a driving range hitting buckets of balls...now there's a real life and death sport...look at you like you have three heads when you talk about going out to do some practice dives. Yes, I take my diving seriously and want to be a great diver. It takes time in the water and dedication to improvement, not taking classes which have a 99.9% success rate.

End of rant...
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...



I do however strongly disagree with the the divers who say they dive alone because buddy teams don't stay together anyway. IMO, divers who aren't skilled enough to stay with a buddy aren't skilled enough to dive alone.

Note, I'm not saying that's you.

Now that's a statement that I feel is right on the money...

By the way... I'm solo diving tomorrow...
 
Thanks, DR Paul, for the sound advice. I was tested for PFO when I started deco diving; deco diving tables do not, of course, work for PFO divers. I've also had a recent HSE pro diver exam--working ECG, etc. I read your earlier thread, and share your concern that "diver rescue is not obligatory in basic PADI training as it is for BSAC."

Mike, where do I start? If "no resort boat is going to put [you] to work," just how do you manage that? I have never found a dive operator who will let me dive without a buddy, until I obtained the SDI c-card. So far, every dive operator I have tried has allowed me to solo dive with my pony bottle, including operators in the Caymans and Bonaire; you, however, would take that c-card as evidence that I am incompetent. That is, as you would say, an interesting perspective. With my SAC rate, I need 8.2 cu ft of air to leisurely make it to the surface from 130ft, with a three min stop at 15 ft. 8.2 cu ft, and I carry a pony with 20 cu ft. You however, would have me carry an extra 80-100 cu ft with a manifold and isolator and the additional failure points that go along with them. That's just goofy. Some of the best divers I know here in the UK refuse to use a manifold and isolator on their doubles precisely because they are so prone to failure, and catastrophic failure at that. You suggest "changing the system," without suggesting just how you intend to change hundreds of thousands of divers. I'll make you a deal, you change the system so that I get a competent buddy on every dive, and I'll stop solo diving. Until then, I'll do what makes me most comfortable. As an aside, when I skydive, I take a redundant chute, rather than rely upon a team. Will I die, die, die? I think not. The most dangerous thing I do, by any statistical measure, is drive a car. You may be shocked to learn that I often do that solo as well!

badgers, make up your own mind. Recall that the buddy system was a carry over from the "never swim alone" YMCA swimming programs in the '40s and '50s. Do you know anyone who is afraid to swim alone today? Try and separate the hysteria from the facts, and come to your own conclusion. Mike's statement that all divers die alone is simply disinformation. Have a look at the DAN reports, and decide for yourself how many deaths are as a direct result of the buddy system--poor buddies, with no rescue training. Ask your local PADI instructor whether they still teach buddy breathing, which is now optional in the PADI system, even though evidence suggests that, as often as not, the result is a double drowning. Recall too that PADI opposed the introduction of BCs, computers and, of course, Nitrox, which is why IAND was formed. I can tell you the debate over Nitrox was just as shrill: "you are going to die, die, die!"
 
Although I dive solo 70-80% of the time, my preference would always be to have a buddy who I am very familiar with join me for safety and to share the enjoyment of the dive at the bottom and topside. I have half a dozen bussies who fit my criteria and are great to dive with.

However I dive very frequently (~200-250 dives per year) and most of my buddies do not live here on Catalina, so I dive solo to conduct my research and my videography. I restrict my solo diving to sites I'm very famliar with and if going to depths greater than about 50 ft. I carry a completely redundant system.

While I recognize the potential risks, life itself has many potential risks topside. I don't drive mainland freeways on a regular basis so I've eliminated that common one.

I've had far more problems when I've dived with buddies I'm not familiar with- in fact a high percentage of those dives had problems. Rarely have any problems diving with my familiar buddies and none to-date diving solo. Of course it only takes one serious incident... and I keep that in mind.

Dr. Bill
 
Aquamaniac once bubbled...

A Cave Diver, with great experience (and I mean REALLY experienced) Died here a few years ago, he was solo........
Experience doesnt mean squat.

Are you talking about Steve Berman?

Here is a link to a report about his death:

http://www.mejeme.com/dive/articles/steveberman.htm

I think it is to simplistic to say that solo diving killed him. He ran out of gas.

If he had had a buddy he may still be here, but by the same token there may well have been two deaths.

I unashamedly solo dive. I simply do not know enough divers I trust enough to buddy with properly. I also have never been the cause of any underwater drama, but have been involved with some as a result of diving with other people.
 
Simon,
Next time Im back home, Ill be sure to look you up.
Id be glad to dive with you.

Dave
 
uk diver 2000 once bubbled...


Mike, where do I start? If "no resort boat is going to put [you] to work," just how do you manage that? I have never found a dive operator who will let me dive without a buddy, until I obtained the SDI c-card. So far, every dive operator I have tried has allowed me to solo dive with my pony bottle, including operators in the Caymans and Bonaire; you, however, would take that c-card as evidence that I am incompetent. That is, as you would say, an interesting perspective. With my SAC rate, I need 8.2 cu ft of air to leisurely make it to the surface from 130ft, with a three min stop at 15 ft. 8.2 cu ft, and I carry a pony with 20 cu ft. You however, would have me carry an extra 80-100 cu ft with a manifold and isolator and the additional failure points that go along with them. That's just goofy. Some of the best divers I know here in the UK refuse to use a manifold and isolator on their doubles precisely because they are so prone to failure, and catastrophic failure at that. You suggest "changing the system," without suggesting just how you intend to change hundreds of thousands of divers. I'll make you a deal, you change the system so that I get a competent buddy on every dive, and I'll stop solo diving. Until then, I'll do what makes me most comfortable. As an aside, when I skydive, I take a redundant chute, rather than rely upon a team. Will I die, die, die? I think not. The most dangerous thing I do, by any statistical measure, is drive a car. You may be shocked to learn that I often do that solo as well!

Again I'm not suggesting that you not solo dive if that's what you want to do. I didn't suggest that you use doubles. I am also aware that there are those who prefer independant double to a manifold. I won't argue that her other than to say I have only heard of one manifold failure and that was I think the result of a high speed collission with a rock. You're correct I can't change the systems and the only divers I can influence are the ones I train.

I guess if you need the solo card you did the right thing by purchasing it.
badgers, make up your own mind. Recall that the buddy system was a carry over from the "never swim alone" YMCA swimming programs in the '40s and '50s. Do you know anyone who is afraid to swim alone today? Try and separate the hysteria from the facts, and come to your own conclusion. Mike's statement that all divers die alone is simply disinformation. Have a look at the DAN reports, and decide for yourself how many deaths are as a direct result of the buddy system--poor buddies, with no rescue training. Ask your local PADI instructor whether they still teach buddy breathing, which is now optional in the PADI system, even though evidence suggests that, as often as not, the result is a double drowning. Recall too that PADI opposed the introduction of BCs, computers and, of course, Nitrox, which is why IAND was formed. I can tell you the debate over Nitrox was just as shrill: "you are going to die, die, die!"

I'm pretty familiar with the DAN report. Could you point to some cases where a buddy caused a death. The general way for a buddy to cause a death is by not being there when needed or. It is true that a bad buddy isn't much help.

I'n not sure what buddy breathing has to do with it. It's true that buddy breathing was sometimes a problem. That's why they invented the alternate.
 
Solo dive, sure, I do under some conditions I have set for myself.

1. Never in an overhead environment.
2. Never on any mixed gases (nitrox, trimix, heliox)
3. Never deeper than 130 ft.
4. Always with a pony bottle (my doubles even with the isolation valve are not what I consider redundant and a spare air just does not count)
5. No dives that requires deco.

I've logged more solo dives than I can count and I certainly don't consider myself a risk taker. The limits I have set for myself are there because I like life and enjoy living life to the fullest. I don't deny myself the freedom of solo dives, but urge anyone who considers diving solo to have sufficient training, experience and equipment.
 
IMO, solo diving should be carried out in a very deliberate and careful fashion. In many situations it's safer to have a well trained buddy that you have been diving with for 10 years, but, for many people w/ proper precautions related to gear, training,and experince, the risk of diving solo in certain situations is acceptable.

Personally, I just want to be in the water alone sometimes.

And I think it's BS how taboo solo diving is. 5 dive a year vacation divers think that's it's their place to lecture someone on how diving alone in any case is "stupid." Give me a break.
 
I wrote the following sometime last December, but never got it onto the other thread. Here it is, with some other comments below it:

I have been solo diving for approximately two decades now, and will discuss my own approach to it, and my background so you can make your own judgements.

My solo diving has been mostly, but not exclusively, fresh water lake or river diving. Much of it was in conjunction with either aquatic life observation, or photography. What I do, not too many others want to do or would tolerate for behavior from a buddy. For instance, I’ve been known to spend ten to twenty minutes on a sandy bottom following the trail of freshwater mussels, observing very small critters interact with other critters (invertebrates like insect nymphs) or the aquatic environment, and photographing mating fish in a current. The red-sided shiners mate in May and June in the North Umpqua River, when the water temperature goes over 60 degrees, which I've documented with observations over the years.

But how many buddies could, much less would, dive with me to be tethered to the bottom in a 5 to 7 knot current to watch these mating interactions of the red-sided shiner, and the feeding of the Umpqua Northern Pike Minnow on the shiners? Not many would have the skill to follow me, much less the desire. So I did these kinds of observations alone on my lunch breaks from work. Much like runners go out for a run, or bicyclers go out for a ride, I went diving on my lunch break, and I saw some fascinating things too.

I should state that most of my solo diving occurred in freshwater rivers and lakes and in water less than 60 feet deep (usually less than 25 feet deep). Had I not begun diving solo, I would have given up the sport. Family comes first, and family activities precluded travel for diving most of the time.

So why would I continue diving, and dive solo, when I also am a safety professional? Well, it has to do with training and experience, a love of both biology and diving, and the need to commit to my family the time necessary to raise kids in today’s world. I don’t recommend solo diving to others, but will give you the training that I decided qualified me to do this kind of diving.

I started diving many years ago, and received training from both the US Navy and US Air Force in diving. In the Navy, solo diving was prohibited, and those who got too far from their buddy slept with and carried for 24 hours a “buddy line,” which was about 15 feet of 6 inch diameter rope used to tie up ships.

But in the US Air Force, one of our primary responsibilities was to parascuba jump from an airplane into the ocean to render aid to injured people. We usually jumped with other jumpers, but on occasion (either because of separation in the air, or mission requirements) jumped alone. Anyone who has seen James Bond in "Thunderball" has seen pararescue parascuba jumpers, as PJs performed the last scenes jumping from a C-97 to rescue Bond. Our mission to provide this aid was developed during the US Space Program, and Commander Scott Carpenter was a direct benificiary.

On helicopter rescues, we often jumped (either parascuba or from a hover) and trained to swim alone. When we jumped, we sometimes needed to recover things like a parachute from the water, on the end of a 60 foot tether (Apollo recovery). If it sank, we needed to get it back. At times, we needed to jump on different survivors, or to a different point to make a recovery. So in the US Air Force, we became comfortable solo divers.

As a diving instructor in the 1970’s, we began discussing the buddy system, and what sometimes when wrong with it. Solo diving was a topic even then. One of the diving pioneers in underwater medicine, Dr. Standley Miles, had discussed accident prevention as a balancing act between the environment and the chance of accidents, accident proness, risk acceptance and physical factors that could produce an accident, balanced by training, maturity and safety measures which tended to keep accidents from occurring. My choice to do solo diving included an examination of my qualifications to dive, my own experience, and the ability to accomplish what I wanted to do while diving. It was always balanced by an examination of the diving conditions, and how I felt at the particular moment concerning the dive. There were times when I did not dive too.

Diving solo is mainly a question of how comfortable a person is in the water, what the person is actually doing, and how that person is equipped through both training and actual equipment. I have dived solo with double-hose regulators, for instance, and no redundancy at all. But this was shallow diving (less than 35 feet), mostly in fresh water. Now, I usually dive with at least an octopus second stage, and at times with a separate regulator.


Dr. Paul Thomas said below:

If you indend to dive solo my advice is to get a test to exclude a patent foramen ovale, first.

This is very good advise, and testing for PFO should be included in a diving physical. I've taken many USAF flight physicals, and think that would have been caught for me some time ago if I had it.

SeaRat
 
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