Sometime – It’s Just One Things After Another

[lamont]

Thanks for your good suggestions. Really, my gas management was planned well, I think? A third out, a third back - which would push me to NDL without Deco, and a third left in case of problems, for me or others on the line or along the way. The Pony was never part of the plan, of course - but a back up that had its own failure. The situation deteriated, and my mistakes made them worse, so I encountered two big surprises on my gas supply. I certainly hope to do better on my involvement in such in the future, though, as there will be more bad surprises to come, always.

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yeah, i think the big thing here is that you were staying at depth long after your gas supply should have pulled you shallower, and that made the pony part of the on-the-fly plan. with a 120 on a dive to 100 ft your rock bottom should have been about 1000 psi (IIRC) and when you hit that, or when you hit deco (i'm estimating you hit deco at around 1500 psi?), you shouldn't have been looking for the upline, but should have been doing a free ascent, shooting a bag, or at least ascending to at least 60-70 feet to slow things down and searching for the line from there.

and while thirds is okay, i think that rock bottom is a bit better because it adapts to how deep you are. if i'm above my rock bottom for my tank at a given depth, i *know* i can get myself and another diver to the surface with zero guesswork. then the rule is that if i hit that value, i have to move shallower. following those simple rules, i know i'm not going to have to OOA anyone due to gas management.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

I do not yet have the experience to comment, as I am a new diver myself. I will tell you this, I know my limitations and comfort level, and I will not exceed them.

Absolutely the smartest policy. I've been doing this for some time, and I don't exceed mine either. Exceeding limitations, training and comfort level is the first step on a one way trip to a body bag.

I tend to err on the side of caution, and I am reading about everything I can get my hands on. Doing AOW and Nitrox classes in a few weeks. Have recently read (to Don's surprise) Shadow Divers and The Last Dive. Learning from many on here as well.

I haven't read Shadow Divers yet. I have read The Last Dive. Its an extreme example of what happens when you exceed limitations, cut corners and take chances.

Your arrogance is appalling to me. I will not comment further, as I do not wish to be the next victim of your attacks. Though I probably will be.

If you choose to see my comments as arrogance, that is certainly your right. Personally, I don't see any attack.

I could easily have participated in the pity party that was the apparent object of this thread. I could have joined in the belief that this was nothing more than bad luck and that it probably won't happen again.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that to be the case. It's a simple equation. Either fix the problem or continue rolling the dice until your number comes up. Because it will happen.

That's not my style. Rather than engaging in a group hug with a dead man walking, I'd rather try to help fix the problems.

You can do the same. With the exception of the comments involving rock bottom and shooting a bag, everything that has been suggested in this thread is covered during OW classes.

How many of the problems that necessitated this rescue would have arisen if the lessons of confined water dives 1 - 6 had been followed?

 

[Paul Evans]

With the exception of the comments involving rock bottom and shooting a bag, everything that has been suggested in this thread is covered during OW classes.

No, but they should be!

NEW's for what its worth I think you have been hard but fair. Sometimes the truth hurts............. Its not nice for anybody....................

 

[DandyDon]

NEW's for what its worth I think you have been hard but fair. Sometimes the truth hurts............. Its not nice for anybody....................

Okay - if we accept that, then - there are courteous ways to communicate, and there are rudes ways.

Which is going to be helpful, and which is going to be damaging? Would you condone kicking a man when he's down?
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[MikeFerrara]

Okay, Mike - I was wrong about your remarks, I'll admit it, and I apologize.

No need to apologize. I just wanted the recors streight.

Unfortunately for this discussion, your's came after the self-righteous barrage, and on top of dealing with my incident, I was defensive about the tone he was putting on this thread.

Understandable.

One big difference between your diving and mine is - you get to do it more, and with divers you instruct, I think, giving you better buddies and better experiences. I get to dive from time to time, and all too often I have to accept buds who I cannot depend on at all, ergo I try to be more self sufficient.

I can certainly appreciate this and you're right. I dive with my wife, son former students and some divers who are more experienced than I am. I would not want to be in the position of having to jump on a boat alone and dive with who ever happened to be there.

I am all about becoming a better and safer diver, but it's difficult to discuss rationally when some person is getting off with his chance to kick me when I'm down, before you came on.

I don't know about you but nobody kicks me unless I'm down. LOL

For now, I do want to offer possible things a reader may take from this thread would include:
(1) Some operators will take divers on trips they shoudn't be on. I am not that example here, but what if this had happened to a newly carded AOW off one of the less picky boats there or in Key Largo?
(2) Equipment fails, but when it does, keep thinking about the next best action, and follow your best options - never panicking.
(3) Divers screw up even with good plans. I'm just a diver, certainly not a pro - but in some cases others can learn more from another traveling diver. Again, think out the alternate options and work the best ones.
(4) But while all this talk has some value, there is no replacement for good training, good practice under more controlled situations, and then - pushing envelopes only within prudent limits.

All true.

I know it isn't always easy but try to find some folks who can dive or at least interested in learning and dive with them rather than learning to dive in spite of those who can't...or won't. It really does make all the difference.

 

[limeyx]

I have my share of bone headed incidents as well.
I will be honest in saying that what most people here call rock bottom, I was trained to call turn pressure. Turn pressure for a dive plan should be calculated before the diver hits the water.

....

Now, like many dive incidents I see many points of failure. But, like Denny I normally carry enough backgas to comfortably get myself and a buddy up. I don't have an issue with sharing air like that unless the person is liable to get my buddy team hurt. What is important at the end is that Don surfaced and had the guts to tell us his thoughts while he was down there. Even he admits that he messed up, but at least he has a chance to review where he messed up and to let us all learn from it.

Rock bottom is not the same as turn pressure.

 

[StSomewhere]

You realize you are responding to a 10 month old thread, right?

 

[boomx5]

You realize you are responding to a 10 month old thread, right?

Is that a crime?

 

[boomx5]

You realize you are responding to a 10 month old thread, right?

For what it's worth, a lot of people respond to old threads and I don't see why people get so bent over it.

 

[DandyDon]

Thanks for you comments. I will try to add them to my learning experiences.

I am, btw, continuing to try to be a better diver - in part from comments made on this thread as well as be a better buddy.

I carry my pony forward slug so I can see the guage, valve and reg now - as I did today - as a result of this incident and thread. Still trust it better than most of the buddies I get.