Son of Deep Stops *or* Waiting to be merged with the mother thread...

[Storker]

The truth has been on my side all along here, and still is.

There are only two alternatives: That you actually believe what you're saying, or that you are deliberately lying. I really don't know what scares me the most.

 

[rossh]

There are only two alternatives: That you actually believe what you're saying, or that you are deliberately lying. I really don't know what scares me the most.

.... or your information, perceptions and beliefs have been wrong all along, and the truth is not what you think it is.


Simple test - show me VPM-B program that has a VPM-B +7 settings and profiles?

It doesn't exist - never has.



Only Kevins Watts has one that he made up for himself, to be the basis of this giant attack vector on VPM-B, .... and its all fabricated.

If you took away this +7 nonsense, the whole house of cards comes down.


.

 

[Storker]

Simple test - show me VPM-B program that has a VPM-B +7 settings and profiles?

It doesn't exist - never has.

You keep on saying this, and I don't doubt for a second that you have set limitations in your software so that the user can't select +7 conservatism.

Your problem, Ross, is that it has been shown - with proper documentation, something that you consistently fail to provide for your arguments - that the VPM-B algorithm as it has been published allows parameter settings that correspond to +7 conservatism. That some software programmer has imposed limitations in his software, which go beyond the limitations in the published algorithm doesn't mean that a parameter selection within the limits of the algorithm is "false". "False" implies lying, and as long as the parameters are within the limits given by the developers of the algorithm, that parameter selection is. not. a. lie.

It has also been shown that VPM-B/E +5 gives ascent schedules almost indistinguishable from VPM-B +7, and apparently, +5 is allowed for VPM-B/E. You have consistently failed to address this in your posts. That doesn't particularly improve your credibility, nor does it strengthen your arguments.

I have no training in decompression diving and will never have to choose between deco models to keep me out of the chamber, but I have a decent grasp of basic principles of sound modelling, of what does and does not constitute proper documentation in technical/scientific discussions and also of the standards of proper research. Based on that knowledge, my - strictly personal - opinion is that while you may or may not be a competent programmer, you are failing miserably in those departments I do have some knowledge about.

Good day to you, sir!

 

[oya]

I wouldn't be very surprised if quite a few divers will now start to look actively for decent alternatives to the products you are selling.

I've had V-Planner on I don't know how many devices over the years. I don't remember which time this same argument showed up or on which forum, but I realized that I no longer really trusted the product.

It had gotten me to the surface safely a zillion times, as it did and continues to for divers all over the world. But in my heart of hearts there was enough uncomfortable doubt because of these nearly unhinged tirades.

I no longer use, nor ever recommend, V-Planner or Multideco for exactly the reasons you are hinting at.

 

[Storker]

I no longer use, nor ever recommend, V-Planner or Multideco for exactly the reasons you are hinting at.

That raises an interesting question. Since you don't trust V-Planner or Multideco any more (and like I said, I'm not at all surprised), which alternative program(s) would you use?

 

[oya]

@Storker
My on-point topic was that I, like so many others, have moved on from deep stops and have a hard time trusting even the GF algorithms of a programmer so deeply and zealously committed to a deep stop model (with a persecution complex from his model faling out of vogue after a decade of being all the rage). I don't suspect he actually deliberately alters the GF behaviour to suit his narrative... but there has been enough wacky shite thrown around that there's a seed of worry.

The off-topic answer (I really didn't mean to highjack anything): mostly I've been using iDeco for the past while while I'm on the subway to work and idly wondering about some comparative dive plans or when I'm actively planning a dive with buddies. During dives I (like I suspect the majority of the world now) no longer keep a piece of duct tape with a bunch of numbers on my fin. Instead I trust the pair of computers strapped to my arm.

 

[cerich]

**ADVISER POST**

This is Scubaboard, not the old tech diver list. This thread is over. The atmosphere here is supposed to be inclusive and friendly. Respectful debate is encouraged. There was lots of information in the post, and lots of mod participation which ultimately allowed the thread to continue far too long.

This is the first time in over a dozen years I have stepped in to do something like this, hopefully it will be another dozen before it happens again.

The time and effort of those who posted information in great detail respectfully to help readers understand the issues is greatly appreciated.





Regards,

Chris Richardson​