Son of Deep Stops *or* Waiting to be merged with the mother thread...

[rjack321]

....except that it's darned close. Also, VPM-B +7 fits within Eric Baker's parameters (having started going through the code myself, I don't see how it could possibly be considered invalid).

As for Nedu A2 profile being "not real"......I remind you that none of these are "real." It's also incredibly contradictory (like many of your statements) that the NEDU profiles are "fake" because they're "stretched out too long"....yet they have high DCS incidences. Clearly they're not overly long or the DCS rate would've been statistically zero, right? Imagine adding conservatism to a profile and getting an increase in DCS.

You forgot
Doing too much deco, espcially those pesky 10ft stops, while freezing your butt off on a Navy salary for science causes DCS.

 

[rossh]

So why are the profiles for some big dive examples prescribed by VPM-B+7 (which is allegedly a "useless stretched out nonsense idea") virtually identical to VPM B/E+5 which, according to you, is fine? See:

Simon M

There is NO such thing as +7.... It was just made it up... a fabrication to try to implicate VPM-B into something it cannot do. Its con job to trick the public of a non-existent link between VPM-B and the the Nedu test profiles.

It's a malicious trick that was played on the public, to convince them of something not real, and you got caught up in this dishonest activity.


I see you also presented this same false data to the DAN South Africa meeting last year.

Also you did a similar thing on the NOAA Rebreathers and Scientific Diving Proceedings as well.


***********

Most of your material that was used to attack VPM-B, used to implicate deep stops, used to bully the public into your version of deco - has been an exaggeration of fact, an exaggeration or invalid use of science, or is just plain made up nonsense.

You left a public record, giving full support to this effort, participating in it, for everyone to see. Now this effort trying to cover it up - too late. The integrity is on the line, and you know it.

.

 

[UWSojourner]

VPM-B+7 does not exist

It's odd to claim "it doesn't exist" when

1. You can make profiles with it.
2. It nicely fits within Baker's public VPM-B code.
3. It's a spot on match of your VPM-BE+4 profiles shown in the post here. And to VPM-BE+5 in the profiles Simon referenced. Clearly its no more "stretched out" than your VPM-BE.
4. Your software used to be able to run VPM-B+7. Those with an older version can go to advanced settings and change the N2 critical radius to about 1.03 --- that's VPM-B+7
5. Nothing within VPM theory would arbitrarily say +5 is ok and +7 breaks VPM.

The comparison of NEDU's A2 and VPM-B+7 validly compares the stop time allocation mechanism of VPM-B. The only reason you say VPM-B+7 "does not exist" is that it's very inconvenient for you.

 

[Dr Simon Mitchell]

There is NO such thing as +7.... You just made it up... .

I didn't "make it up". I wish I had been the first to think of that angle, but I wasn't. David Doolette generated the first VPM-B+7 profile comparisons during the debate on RBW.

But why don't you simply answer this question Ross?........

So why are the profiles for some big dive examples prescribed by VPM-B+7 (which is allegedly a "useless stretched out nonsense idea") virtually identical to VPM B/E+5 which, according to you, is fine?

And as for the rest of your post which I won't quote here because I don't want this one deleted when yours is, my integrity is just fine thank you Ross. And yes, there is a long trail for all to see (including my scientific peers worldwide) which I have no intention of "covering up", and that is why I am very careful about what I say on the internet.

Simon M

 

[huwporter]

I was curious about how a VPM-B+7 profile compares to a VPM-B+5 profile for the same depth with a slightly longer bottom time.

(VPM-B+7 profiles for 20 and 40 minutes at 300ft are taken from UWSojourner's post here: Son of Deep Stops *or* Waiting to be merged with the mother thread... and converted from cumulative time to individual stop times for easier comparison):

As you can see, the profiles for VPM-B+7 @ 20 minutes vs VPM-B+5 @ 24 minutes, and also VPM-B+7 @ 40 minutes vs VPM-B+5 @ 49 minutes are virtually identical, with only one or two minutes difference in total run time each and never differing by more than a single minute up to the 20ft stop. Any differences this small are utterly inconsequential in the real world.

In other words, a profile that is described as "fake, made up, a fabrication" for a given bottom time apparently becomes just fine and officially sanctioned for a longer bottom time. Get your head around a purview where doing the deco for a longer bottom time than actual is seen as somehow invalid!

 

[rossh]

See... all the effort by your friends.... to try hide the truth and to cover up a fabrication of the +7 nonsense, and a deception that was used to attribute a comparison from Nedu to VPM-B... neither of which actually exist.

Shame on the lot of you. The truth prevails - your efforts to hide this not working.

 

[huwporter]

Hi Ross, can you explain how a profile is fabricated nonsense at one bottom time but suddenly becomes A-OK for a bottom time ~20% longer?

 

[Storker]

See... all the effort by your friends.... to try hide the truth and to cover up a fabrication of the +7 nonsense, and a deception that was used to attribute a comparison from Nedu to VPM-B... neither of which actually exist.

Ross, you have effectively stripped yourself for any grain of credibility you might once have had by your repeated ad hominems, your repeated accusations of unethical behavior by respected scientists, your continued lack of documentation of the claims in those personal attacks, and your continued lack of scientific substance in your somewhat ontopic posts. You have consistently violated boulderjohn's mod post on page 3 for about two dozen pages now. You have shown no credible documentation whatsoever of your grossly exaggerated claims of unethical behavior, and the only one who even remotely believes that there's anything to them is yourself.

I entered the previous trainwreck of a thread with no preconceptions whatsoever about deeper vs shallower stops, decompression software or choice of deco model. During that thread (EDIT: and further during this) you have managed to make me thoroughly disgusted with your behavior, and my respect for Drs. Mitchell and Doolette has soared. I - like others in this thread - would definitely not have been able to respond in such a civilized manner that they have been doing. I've learned a lot from their patient and very informative explanations of the intricacies of decompression science.

If it were up to me - which it obviously isn't, since I'm participating in these threads and thus aren't allowed to take part in any moderator decisions regarding you or these threads - you would have been booted from those threads and possibly from the Tech forum a long time ago. I'm very surprised and not a little frustrated that you've been allowed to keep on [EDIT: violating the ToS and blatantly disregarding moderator admonishments] for so long. And I wouldn't be very surprised if quite a few divers will now start to look actively for decent alternatives to the products you are selling.

</rant>
...and breathe.

 

[rossh]

Ross, you have effectively stripped yourself for any grain of credibility you might once have had by your repeated ad hominems, your repeated accusations of unethical behavior by respected scientists, your continued lack of documentation of the claims in those personal attacks, and your continued lack of scientific substance in your somewhat ontopic posts. You have consistently violated boulderjohn's mod post on page 3 for about two dozen pages now. You have shown no credible documentation whatsoever of your grossly exaggerated claims of unethical behavior, and the only one who even remotely believes that there's anything to them is yourself.

I entered the previous trainwreck of a thread with no preconceptions whatsoever about deeper vs shallower stops, decompression software or choice of deco model. During that thread (EDIT: and further during this) you have managed to make me thoroughly disgusted with your behavior, and my respect for Drs. Mitchell and Doolette has soared. I - like others in this thread - would definitely not have been able to respond in such a civilized manner that they have been doing. I've learned a lot from their patient and very informative explanations of the intricacies of decompression science.

If it were up to me - which it obviously isn't, since I'm participating in these threads and thus aren't allowed to take part in any moderator decisions regarding you or these threads - you would have been booted from those threads and possibly from the Tech forum a long time ago. I'm very surprised and not a little frustrated that you've been allowed to keep on [EDIT: violating the ToS and blatantly disregarding moderator admonishments] for so long. And I wouldn't be very surprised if quite a few divers will now start to look actively for decent alternatives to the products you are selling.

</rant>
...and breathe.

Yet another one... trying to hide from the truth. Your a professor too I think. Some one probably told you a big bunch of lies to get you so far off track, and then cried about the possibly loss in their integrity, if the truth ever gets out.

Did you notice, that it was your friends, who started with the "banned words" again. Yet you do not seem to want to publicly sanction them. What an interesting observation.







Here are some FACTS, you cannot escape:

• There is no such thing as VPM-B + 7: You cannot buy it, or make it anywhere. It was fabricated by Kevin Watts, with the full assistance of Simon Mitchell, who endorses it fully, Kevin and Simon has already confirmed exactly that in this thread earlier.

• This +7 fabrication was then used to make an invalid comparison to the Nedu profiles, and to implicate VPM-B. All of that - both morally and scientifically invalid too.

• Simon then uses this fabricated and invalid +7 comparisons and associations, in his presentations knowing full well its all fabricated and does not exist.

• Now we see a "friends of Simon" effort to cover up the deceptions and hide the truth by trying to make even more comparisons to something else unrelated from 2004.

Is speaking the truth, about the publicly admitted and published actions of others regarding a decompression model, some how constitutes a "personal attack"? I don't think so... No... it just shows shameful behavior. If these people are getting up set, then maybe they should stop it, and print a retraction.


*****

Decompression models and programming run on the truth - no room for fantasy, no room for wishful thinking, distortions or anything else like that. The truth has been on my side all along here, and still is.


.

.

 

[huwporter]

Hi Ross,

Sorry, maybe my question wasn't clear, I wasn't looking for more declarations of how strong your devotion to VPM is or accusations of conspiracy, I was just asking for a simple explanation of why a profile is fabricated nonsense at one bottom time but suddenly becomes A-OK for a bottom time ~20% longer?