Sport Chalet Instruction...new rules

[The Chairman]

So let me get this straight: You are advocating a change for the entire diving world (well, at least those taught by S.C.), reducing the level of instruction to meet the lowest common denominator?

Actually, I am advocating an increase in instruction, not less. I also advocate teaching what the student will be using. If the student doesn't use it (ie tables) then we have no reason to teach it. I am not sure why you are so against the teaching of computers in a class room situation. Especially considering your user name.

Just because "no one uses those old things anymore" doesn't mean there is no merit to learning them,

Yes, yes, let's break out those nifty BCs with the CO2! Let's show them how to operate that J-Valve! All in the interest of driving students away with archaic BS that they really don't need to learn.

 

[CentralTxDiver]

Actually, I am advocating an increase in instruction, not less. I also advocate teaching what the student will be using. If the student doesn't use it (ie tables) then we have no reason to teach it. I am not sure why you are so against the teaching of computers in a class room situation. Especially considering your user name.

Yes, yes, let's break out those nifty BCs with the CO2! Let's show them how to operate that J-Valve! All in the interest of driving students away with archaic BS that they really don't need to learn.

Hey, I still dive tables...hmmm I also still have and dive one of those horsecollar BC's with the CO2 cartridges an Aqualung Military Calypso BC and have a steel 72 with a working j-valve just back from passing hydro and even have and dive an older Aqualung Royal Aqua Master double hose reg. I guess I'm old school...but still like to use computers on occassion. While nothing can stand in the way of progress I guess diving tables will one day go the route of vintage diving.

Jim

 

[Ann Marie]

Jobar - if you are going to quote new SOPs of a corporation I would be very careful to make sure that what you say is accurate. I can't think of many companies that would be thrilled to see their SOPs show up on a board where they could be misinterpreted.

Students of Sport Chalet will be learning dive planning using computers and the eRDP. The eRDP will be included in a Open Water Crew Pack. The RDP Table version will not be taught during the Open Water Diving Course.

If this makes it easier for divers to plan a dive AND if this gets divers to put more thought into planning their dive than just jumping into the water, I'm all for it.

 

[Kevrumbo]

No more than your's my friend. No more than yours. You have yet to produce any substantive evidence, relying on your less than subtle "charm" to badger me into submission. Your appeal to some amorphic authority without any empiricism only shows your propensity to over simplify with little to no thoughtful analysis. That, or you simply like writing the word "arse".

You only see the unlucky "<%1". From this you extrapolate to ALL recreational divers? I asked earlier what percentage of those divers came in with tables in hand? You have yet to answer such a simple query. Or do you surmise, by the dearth of tables, that the only "safe diver" is the one who uses tables? Pergamentum init, exit pergamentum.

Email it yourself and pose your query & novel ideas concerning Tables to Karl Huggins himself (chamber@wrigley.usc.edu) . . .let us know Pete when you've learned something useful and empirical.

 

[The Chairman]

So, you don't know? Or you are unwilling? Interesting.

 

[CompuDude]

Actually, I am advocating an increase in instruction, not less. I also advocate teaching what the student will be using. If the student doesn't use it (ie tables) then we have no reason to teach it. I am not sure why you are so against the teaching of computers in a class room situation. Especially considering your user name.

You did READ my post, right? One part you didn't quote was "If Sport Chalet decided to teach actual hands-on computer usage, that would be another thing." But they're not. They are substituting an easily-broken crappy plastic calculator instead of tables.

Yes, yes, let's break out those nifty BCs with the CO2! Let's show them how to operate that J-Valve! All in the interest of driving students away with archaic BS that they really don't need to learn.

It's best if you take a statement to the absurd degree, is that the idea? I never advocated CO2 or J-Valves, I advocated tables, which I still feel have a place in instruction... and others clearly do, too.

More importantly, the thrust to my post which seems to have been missed, is that while I AGREE that computers are the future, I DISAGREE that tables are irrelevant, and apparently PADI and Sport Chalet do, too, since they still are not teaching computers. They have merely substituted teaching hardy tables for cheaply made (yet more expensive) calculators that break if you step on them or mistreat them in any way, unlike the vast majority of dive gear.

They are still teaching tables, in a sense, they have just changed the hardware for the worse.

 

[Jorbar1551]

The new sop's for SC are to not teach the tables, but to substitute the tables and learn to plan dives with the eRDP.

 

[The Chairman]

You did READ my post, right? One part you didn't quote was "If Sport Chalet decided to teach actual hands-on computer usage, that would be another thing." But they're not. They are substituting an easily-broken crappy plastic calculator instead of tables.

Students of Sport Chalet will be learning dive planning using computers and the eRDP.

Anne seems to speak with authority on what is the real MO here. This is what I first read into the OP. Pardon me for taking them at their word.

They are still teaching tables, in a sense, they have just changed the hardware for the worse.

Then you contend there is no change in the status quo but the media with which the tables are presented? What's the big issue then?

Tables and the understanding of tables is not needed to conduct a safe dive by an Open Water student. A grasp of the rudiment physiology of decompression and mastering a method of gaging your propensity to having DCS is important to conducting a dive safely.

One of the definitions of "crazy" is to do the same thing over and over with the same negative results. Here we have instructors teaching hundreds of thousands of students HOW to use tables and yet we hardly ever see these holy grails on the boats. You can continue acting crazy here, but I for one am seeking another way to get my students to ALWAYS monitor their Gas Load. Obviously tables are failing the vast majority of divers who simply refuse to use them.

 

[Thalassamania]

Email it yourself and pose your query & novel ideas concerning Tables to Karl Huggins himself (chamber@wrigley.usc.edu) . . .let us know Pete when you've learned something useful and empirical.

Karl Huggins (himself) is an old old friend, I wonder how he'd feel about your bringing his name into this conversation in this fashion?

 

[spectrum]

A table is self evident, stuff it in your bag or BC pocket and it will be there and functional.

Some nifty dive calculator will be just like a Palm Pilot or a Blackberry, ready to crap when you're not looking and need it the most. I bet the price of the crew pack reflects this enhancement too.

Pete