SSI vs. PADI

[garyfotodiver]

An often quoted myth.

How so? Please explain.

 

[cummings66]

Walter has a very nice posting where he lists the differences in agency requirements for the class. So if you have an instructor who goes by the bare minimum checklist type class there are indeed better agencies.

If you have an instructor who teaches safe diving then the skills taught can easily be better than the best agency. So what Walter is saying is accurate.

Look for his postings and you'll stumble across it, I'd like to see Walter put that link in his sig. It would make the searches easier.

 

[Walter]

How so? Please explain.

Instructors can an do make a difference. On one end of the scale is the instructor who really doesn't care about quality. He cuts corners (and standards) where ever he thinks he can get away with it. He makes a difference by teaching horrible classes. Fortunately, this type of instructor is rare.

On the other end of the scale is the instructor who thinks about what he does and why. This instructor will develop or borrow skills and techniques from other instructors. This instructor questions everything. "How can I make this better?" He makes a difference by teaching excellent classes. Unfortunately, this type of instructor is also rare.

The vast majority of instructors fall in between these two extremes. This instructor went through the ranks of whatever agency and believes how he was taught to teach is the best way to teach. He never questions anything. He follows the party line (standards) to the letter, neither cutting corners nor adding anything. He believes (mistakenly) the folks in the ivory towers know more about teaching diving than he ever will, so he does exactly as he was taught. For this reason his class is exactly the same as a class taught by someone from the same agency anywhere in the world.

Some agencies (YMCA & NAUI are two examples) lessen this effect somewhat by encouraging instructor candidates to question, to be creative, to add to classes. Other agencies (PADI is an example) increase this effect by actively discouraging creativity.

Since most classes are taught by instructors following standards to the letter, and since agencies write their standards, agencies have a bigger impact on most classes than do the individual instructors.

 

[Scotty g]

My instructor called the dive during my 1st OW dive on my OW course. Viz was 2ft and it was terrible and rather un-nervy. We were all gutted and although we went home with less than 20 mins of a logged dive that day, we soon realised that we are being taught by a guy who puts our safety and comfort at paramount, which is more important than any C-Card to me.

Scotty

(Additional note...)

That very day, my more local LDS (who i refused to train with) carried on with their dive in those conditions which made me glad i picked the LDS further away because they have proved their way of more professional and safety concious training in their methods.

 

[Mark_J]

Some agencies (YMCA & NAUI are two examples) lessen this effect somewhat by encouraging instructor candidates to question, to be creative, to add to classes. Other agencies (PADI is an example) increase this effect by actively discouraging creativity.

Since most classes are taught by instructors following standards to the letter, and since agencies write their standards, agencies have a bigger impact on most classes than do the individual instructors.

I am curious as to how many PADI/YMCA/NAUI Instructors you have direct first hand experiences with that would substantiate your opinions and validate the statements you are making?

Personally I only know about a hundred or so Instructors from SSI/NAUI/PADI, not even a measurable percentage of all the Instructors out there so my opinion on this issue is hardly relevant. Out of the Instructors I do know, I'd say there are only a small handful of them I would not recommend. Of the ones I would recommend (the vast majority) all of them are creative Instructors that would do whatever they felt was necessary to turn out new divers that will be well on their way to safely enjoying our sport.

It certainly IS the quality of the Instructor and NOT the organization that is most important.

 

[Walter]

I am curious as to how many PADI/YMCA/NAUI Instructors you have direct first hand experiences with that would substantiate your opinions and validate the statements you are making?

Of course I can't speak them or give you their opinions, but I've had direct first hand experience with thousands.

 

[jeckyll]

...
But do not fret, all is not lost. IMHO, the best training comes after the class - regardless of the agency. The smartest thing you can do for you and your son is find some experienced divers to hook up with, then listen, watch and learn from them. Good post-class mentoring can teach you more than you would believe. Mentors do not have to sell you gear to exist, they are not hooked to an agency or product brand.

There are some unsafe divers out there that you don't want to be mentored by, so be selective.
...

Very true. I think that once you realize that much of the actual learning happens post course, you are more likely to continue to think about improving your skills and taking the steps necessary to become a good diver.

You'll find many threads on SB about how certification levels often have very little to do with how good a diver someone is.

Best of luck and welcome to SB.

Bjorn

 

[garyfotodiver]

I would relate two personal instances where the creativity of the instructor contributed to a) a better-trained diver, and b) an enhanced experience.

My daughter trained when she was 12, through PADI dive shops. Her open-water dives were done in Florida. The instructor made certain that she could dive the places that I dive, so she entered the Sea Emperor wreck, which lies at about 70 fsw. She dove in seas, in currents, and I agreed and still agree, that this was the appropriate action.

For my AOW, the SSI instructor tailored the materials to give me the knowledge that I wanted and needed. So I learned, among other things, the insides of my regulator, how to adjust it, and how to rebuild it.

The instructor matters!

 

[pupdiver]

Walter has a very nice posting where he lists the differences in agency requirements for the class. So if you have an instructor who goes by the bare minimum checklist type class there are indeed better agencies.

If you have an instructor who teaches safe diving then the skills taught can easily be better than the best agency. So what Walter is saying is accurate.

Look for his postings and you'll stumble across it, I'd like to see Walter put that link in his sig. It would make the searches easier.

I looked through Walter's postings and couldn't find it. I would like to see a side-by-side comparison of checklists by agency.

Walter, any chance you could put in a link for it?

 

[BKP]

I instruct for a SSI shop and train a couple of hundred divers a year. I think I do a good job. I'm pretty certain I'd do a good job if I were a PADI instructor.

Boils down to the instructor, not the agency.

There are multiple threads on this.

What Al says above is sage advice: It's the INSTRUCTOR, not the agency.
Go with whom you feel most comfortable with, and with whom you feel would have the most empathy for any concerns, questions you may have.

I went NAUI... It had nothing at all to do with NAUI...

(oh... and don't rent your equipment... bite the bullet and buy it.... there are threads on this too!)