Stay W/ my buddy or stay W/ the group?

[Diver0001]

We have had a few candid conversations about this and he say's you should always stick with your buddy. I also told him that I would be posting this question here to get the opinions of other divers. It will be an interesting read for both of us. Thanks.

To maybe put some perspective on this I dive both solo and I dive with buddies. When I dive solo I do it consciously and with a particular goal in mind and my motivation is usually to not be hindered by the group. In that sense I can appreciate your husband's "free spirit". There is certainly some risk involved in solo diving but every individual (I believe) should be left to judge if this risk is acceptable to them. The wise ones will also discuss it with their loved ones because in actual fact, the risk isn't your alone to bear.

When I dive with a buddy, however, then my buddy is a teammate and the dive plan is a *Team* plan. The plan is made together and we plan-our-dive-and-dive-our-plan. I'm very disciplined about this with both my buddies and with myself. If my buddy isn't happy with a penetration then it should come up in the pre-dive planning and there is no giving in to temptation.... Period. In buddy diving, communication is paramount and the team operates to the comfort zone of all the divers...not just some of them and certainly not just one of them. It seems to me that this is where you and your husband are having a disconnect. What you actually do as a team is up to you but either way the plan has to be a team plan.

R..

 

[Sideband]

You have said that he is a good buddy but you gave several examples where he wasn't anyones buddy except in the "same ocean" sense. If a dive is to be done as a buddy team then it is planned and executed to the skill level of the least qualified diver. Dive plans can change once in the water but you discuss the contingencies before splashing. When the plan does change it should be well communicated that the change is taking place and should be verified that you are both still comfortable with the change. If a buddy of mine did those things I would take it to mean that their desire to have their own fun was more important to them than my safety, comfort or enjoyment of the dive. It would also mean they didn't follow the dive plan because I wouldn't agree to such a plan.

Joe

 

[TSandM]

I'm beginning to think that diving with one's spouse is simply a recipe for trouble.

I had some major discussions with mine about buddies, and the responsibilities of buddies, and how far I expected a buddy to get from me (remember, we are diving in cold pea soup in Pugent Sound). My husband flat out told me that he did not intend to abide by the parameters I thought were reasonable. I told him I would dive with other people, and that's what I have done at home.

We just finished a trip to Maui. We went out on a charter boat and dove in Molokini. We went down as a herd, and followed an instructor. My husband was taking photographs. Staying with him meant losing the instructor. I stayed with the instructor, and watched as carefully as I could to make sure he was still in the rearguard and close enough to other divers to have help if he got into trouble. Given the vis in Molokini, it still meant he was sometimes probably 40 or 50 feet away. I knew the instructor knew the topography and would keep us safe. I did not know that about my husband.

I haven't come up with a really viable coping strategy for a "dive buddy" who doesn't respect the limitations of his companion -- or even if they aren't true limitations, the anxieties or insecurities of his companion. We all began as novice divers, and the worries of novices need to be taken into consideration when somebody plans what they are going to do.

I have found other dive buddies who are more than willing to respect my lack of experience and keep the dives conservative and non-threatening to me. Maybe you need to do the same thing.

 

[El Orans]

I'm beginning to think that diving with one's spouse is simply a recipe for trouble.

My wife is by far my favourite buddy. Even though she only dives locally to keep her skills current for the trips to Egypt, Bonaire etc.. I dive year round, usually with other DIR-divers.

However, if we dive together we agree beforehand what we're going to do (max depth, time, turn pressure, skills exercises etc.) and stick to the plan. If either of us feels uncomfortable, the dive is called. No questions asked (at least, not underwater).

Laurens

 

[ICY ICE]

Sounds like you have a curious "hubby", all I could say is find yourself another dive budddy that is safer and more at your level of diving. Let "hubby" dive with his friends, or other curious divers. You should also encourage your husband to take some technical training, this way he can safely do the things he's currently doing.

I have married friends that never dive together or fly together for the reason that the kids may end up parentless. I wouldn't dive the way he does for the sake of leaving my kids with only a memory of me.

Training and diving with someone at your level is very important to me.

 

[ktrjc]

I'm beginning to think that diving with one's spouse is simply a recipe for trouble.

I disagree. My wife is my buddy, we put more thought into our safety than I think some other divers would. We look at it as diving should be fun and enjoyable, no undue stress should be added. If either fo us does not feel comfortable, gets anxious or anything else, we will call the dive, there will always be tomorrow. If your husband/husbands don't want to dive to your level and help keep your comfort level high, then I would look for a new buddy.

Good luck.

Ken

 

[cummings66]

I had some major discussions with mine about buddies, and the responsibilities of buddies, and how far I expected a buddy to get from me (remember, we are diving in cold pea soup in Pugent Sound). My husband flat out told me that he did not intend to abide by the parameters I thought were reasonable. I told him I would dive with

I think the key is the person, not their relation. In this thead we've seen that her and apparently your husband are just not good buddies, and most likely behave the same way with other divers as well.

Some people never really think hard about their responsibilities, they've never had to share air or assist in any manner. If they've ever run out of air, or donated their octo to a diver who has then they would realize that for a buddy to work that buddy needs to be close and attentive.

My take on the matter is that if you dive with a buddy, then that person better act like a buddy or you shouldn't be diving with them in that capacity.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

The thing about responding to an underwater emergency situation that makes it so potentially problematic is that its important to think your way through the response.

You have only a limited number of options available, depending on what you've brought with you. You have only a limited amount of time, generally very short, in which to make the correct choice. Whether you're being swept down a wall by a downcurrent, or swept away from a wreck by current, or OOA, or entangled in a fishnet or monofilament, etc. you need to consider what to do, consider what to do it with, execute, and then reconsider as necessary. Its important to stay calm and keep a cool head to perform well.

If you're already stressed or anxious to begin with, as Bob noted earlier, it gets really tough to stay calm if you should then have some sort of emergency. Stress and panic are the real killers, especially with less-experienced divers.

Both Nu-Diver and TSandM have indicated that diving with their husbands puts them into situations where they must choose between staying with their husbands or staying with the group. It goes without saying that this is a lousy choice to have to make when conversation or discussion is impossible. Being either place, with the group OR with the husband, feeling stressed and anxious because of the resulting separation is no fun. And its supposed to be fun.

The only solution is (like with so many other potential emergency situations) to avoid putting yourself in this position to begin with.

You need to have a frank discussion with your husband and indicate that deliberate separation is not tolerable to you at this point in your diving. So, your husband either accommodates your need to reduce stress and anxiety underwater, or (as TSandM did) you don't plan dives with your husband.

The alternative is, as you noted previously, that you find yourself outside a wreck with the group swimming away and your husband still somewhere inside. Thats a bad situation to be in, and one that is guaranteed to ruin your dive. Especially if something then goes wrong.

And re-read that link provided earlier about Alex and Jan. It's a chilling example of how reduced vis inside a wreck can lead to problems for inexperienced divers.

On a more personal note, your husband's behavior is neither supportive to you personally nor team oriented. (Can you say "passive aggressive"?) Someone who will deliberately act against both the personal plan as well as the plan set out by the DM is not someone you want to be diving with. Recognizing that both perceptions and needs change over time, this is something you need to discuss at length with your husband before your next dives together. It is literally something that your life may one day depend on.

Diving is a enjoyable activity on many levels, but it is intolerant of oversight, neglect, or failure. And the penalties, whether death or spending the rest of your life in a wheelchair, can be severe.

Best of luck,

Doc

 

[Halthron]

The discussion my wife and I had when we first started yielded these rules:
1) If it comes down to staying with a group or staying with your buddy, stay with your buddy.
2) Either of us can call a dive for any reason, including if we think the other is doing something dangerous. It may be the only way to get the person to stop doing it.
3) There's nothing wrong with not buddying up if we want to do different things, just buddy with someone with similar interests for that dive.

I'm not a big fan of leaving your buddy behind but that's essentially what's been done to you. You may want to consider pairing with someone that will stay with you.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I haven't come up with a really viable coping strategy for a "dive buddy" who doesn't respect the limitations of his companion -- or even if they aren't true limitations, the anxieties or insecurities of his companion. We all began as novice divers, and the worries of novices need to be taken into consideration when somebody plans what they are going to do.

The strategy is simple. Don't dive with them. If they don't get themselves hurt they are liable to get you hurt. to sort of barrow a phrase...don't dive with divers who have dangerous attitudes. It's inconvenient if you happen to be maried to the diver with the dangerous attitude. You can always golf or bowl together but dive with some one else until they streighten up.

I think it's good to be blunt about this stuff. A good way to get some bluntness into your diving without hurt feelings is to get in the habit of conducting a briefing before each dive and a debriefing after each dive. It's simple. Prior to the dive, each, in turn, goes over his understanding of the plan. Now every one should be on the same page. after the dive, each diver, in turn, reviews the dive describing what they thought went well, what didn't and what should change. On the next dive you attempt to correct any problems or mixups that happened on earlier dives. After a while the debriefe may be reduced to "Wow great dive!"

I'd also stay a long way away from dive ops that lead untrained, inadequately equiped divers into overhead environments too. The first rule of accident analysis (I think it's the first, I don't always remember them in order LOL) is to be trained. In more general terms it simply means to dive within your training and experience. Failure to follow this seemingly simple rule is a leading factor in dive accidents. You just can't do everything wrong and expect to always get good results.