Supporting my local dive shop(s) is frustrating

[Raphus]

Hmm. 2 high quality coldwater first stages with 2 equivalent second stages its already 600-1000.
Get a good semi dry suit:500-900
Bcd/BP 300-700
Perdix with transmitter:1500
Mask fins and all that are not too expensive. Maybe 300 in total.

Get some stuff here and there and I can see you can spend up to 3-4k easily.
Add a high quality dry suit and it's 5k+

And then if course tanks, weights, lights,
And I am sure he included the camera.

I am sure you can reach the 5k without the drysuit

 

[Raphus]

I did buy all my stuff after owd, before my first real dive.
I don't regret any buys, besides the retractors and clips.. Which were not too expensive.

But I know many people which bought crap and had to rebuy everything.

I think there is 2 different "good" ways.

1: rent and try the gear

2: ask someone who REALLY knows gear well. And read a lot on sb/internet. Then buy it.
Problem here is, that to many people have to many opinions. Ask the right persons..

 

[lowwall]

Hmm. 2 high quality coldwater first stages with 2 equivalent second stages its already 600-1000.
Get a good semi dry suit:500-900
Bcd/BP 300-700
Perdix with transmitter:1500
Mask fins and all that are not too expensive. Maybe 300 in total.

Get some stuff here and there and I can see you can spend up to 3-4k easily.
Add a high quality dry suit and it's 5k+

And then if course tanks, weights, lights,
And I am sure he included the camera.

I am sure you can reach the 5k without the drysuit

The OP posted the list of gear. There's no drysuit. Mask, fins, snorkel were all fairly normal. Wetsuit choice a little unusual (Probe Frogskin top and bottoms plus a shorty) but similar cost to a higher end 3mm.

The main cost drivers were his Atomic ST1 regset, Garmin Descent AI, a $1000 camera package and a $300 pointy dive knife. The first two are at least arguably reasonable if you have the money and value their features. I suggested the camera and knife are not really suitable for a new diver.

 

[Centrals]

Of course sky the limit but what is the alternative? Plenty if shop carefully.
"Life saving equipment"? So reg have to be the "best" ie most expensive.

 

[Belzelbub]

The main cost drivers were his Atomic ST1 regset, Garmin Descent AI, a $1000 camera package and a $300 pointy dive knife. The first two are at least arguably reasonable if you have the money and value their features. I suggested the camera and knife are not really suitable for a new diver.

Definitely agree. If he’s got the money, there is nothing at all wrong with the ST1 or Descent AI. The ST1 is somewhat questionable as I don’t really see a need to go for stainless steel over brass provided they are stored and cared for appropriately. My daughter is using a regulator that is older than her. It’s been well cared for since I bought it, and doesn’t show any signs of corrosion externally, or internally.

The Descent AI is certainly an interesting choice. Nothing at all wrong with it. It’s just expensive, but if you are also going to use it as an everyday smart/fitness watch, it starts to make a lot more sense. If not, there are definitely more reasonable options.

I would definitely hold off on the expensive camera for now. Definitely don’t want a full camera until very comfortable with diving. A GoPro or clone would be less cumbersome and roughly serve the same purpose. Obviously the expensive camera is capable of higher quality, but unless planning on blowing them up and hanging on the wall, or selling, the GoPro is adequate.

$300 dive knife? I can’t see a reason for that at any stage. A small blunt tip and/or trilobite/shears is all that most divers will ever need, and can certainly be had for far less than $300. I carry a sharp point knife and EMT shears. I think I maybe paid $50-$60 total. Sharp point is only because I spearfish, as a fish dispatching tool.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . I suggested the camera and knife are not really suitable for a new diver.

Agree. A new diver would be well advised to keep their hands free (e.g., of a camera) and mind focused on the diving itself for their first 50 maybe even 100 dives. A new diver may underestimate how much concentration is required to continually monitor their air consumption, time, depth, location, body position, etc., and while doing all that, being prepared, per their training, to deal with any contingencies they or their buddy may encounter.

 

[formernuke]

A knife yes as entanglement hazards exist. 300 is high even for a titanium knife.

Camera definitely wait on.

 

[Lorenzoid]

A knife yes as entanglement hazards exist. 300 is high even for a titanium knife. . . .

And at the opposite end of the spectrum from the $300 titanium knife (that I would be afraid of losing) there is the DIR "steak knife" (that is almost disposable). It doesn't get cheaper than that. Knives have a way of getting lost. A Trilobyte might win for best all-around cutting tool. And while it is good practice for every diver to carry a cutting tool, we might keep in mind that some marine parks prohibit carrying knives, and then there is the fact that most of us vacation-type divers have never in a thousand dives had a need to use a knife. The one time I pulled out my Trilobyte was in Cozumel when the DM had found some ghost fishing line. If one is diving in less benign places, such as kelp, okay, a knife is a must. For the rest of us, it is unlikely to ever see use.

 

[Sbiriguda]

What I don't understand is the ratio behind the equipment choices
Let's say one wants the very best regs for cold waters, that could be an overkill, but ok still makes sense. But why purchasing a tech computer if one is just a beginner recreational diver? The way to tech diving is long, it can take years. So better just get a decent second hand computer for recreational diving, and then wait for the right time to upgrade and buy something better but that costs like 10 times more. Tech diving also require much more than the gear listed in the thread opener's posts: redundant gear so 2 cutting tools, 2 masks, 2 computers, etc. a tech BCD, presumably a drysuit, not to mention all the specific training and certifications and so on and on

 

[Joris Vd]

There is no ratio behind the equipment choices, the guy just googled 'best scuba gear' looked on some boards and decided this is what he needed. Let's be real here. Everyone has done this to some extent as a starting divers.

I actually like the gear choices except the air2 inflator and the 300 dollar bread knife. But maybe he's just rich and wants to spend money, that's all fine with me.

What I don't understand is you complaining about dive shops stock management. It's a completely normal storefront business model. You don't put an order with the manufacturer untill it's worth it, else the logistic side of things will end op costing you your margins.

And the one brand policy is present in almost all aspects of business. You don't go to a Toyota Forklift dealer to complain about the fact he's not willing to sell you a Clark forklift or spare parts? It just doesn't work that way in any business, unless you are in the logistics business, where you just have one massive warehouse, but that's not feasible for any small shop.

And yes it's dying out, because people have gotten used to easy quick easy access to everything.

Is this a bad or a good thing, I don't know, but it's a weird thing to attack the business model of a dive store, which is basically the same business model of any small retailer. These big stores like amazon, zalando, asos etc. they do provide everything instantly, but it comes at a cost of exploiting employees.

Zalando (a big shoe online retailer) used to pay their german warehouse workers 5 dollars an hour for work that's basically slaving. If they didn't reach their targets they would get a warning, second warning, third warning out. The targets were basically unreachable unless you slave away like crazy.

They would pay Bulgarian families as little as to 3 ,5 dollars an hour. This was in 2013!!! Untill Germany reformed it's laws considering the minimum wage this was the reality for these 'flexi-workers'.

It's easy to attack small business models if you ignore all the ethical and economical issues these big companies cause.
The big online retailers have the better 'business' models, but it really comes at the cost of the employees.