Suunto Dive Computers and Decompression Diving? Advice wanted

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

...Thanks for your responses. May I ask another question? Is it generally standard procedure in deco-diving to use a high O2 mix nearer the surface to speed up decompression towards the end of the dive, or is it dependent on the profile of the dive you have just done?

Out of curiousity, what courses and agencies did ... you choose to get your training?

If you look on my profile, you will see what agencies I have trained with. There are many tech agencies, however, so you should look around in your area, talk to the instructors, and see which ones you get along with the best.

Ask each instructor how deep he is certified to teach. Not all are certified to 100 meters, and if you fail to drag this out of them, they will not confess it.

You will learn that decompression normally pushes the ppO2 limit of 1.6 ATAs for each of the deco mixes. Therefore you will switch onto a particular deco gas during your egression at that depth where the ppO2 of that gas equals 1.6 ATAs.

For 100% O2 this is at 20 fsw; for EAN 80 this would be at 30 fsw; for EAN 50 this is at 70 fsw; etc. Some tech instructors prefer to use EAN 80 and EAN 34, whereas others prefer to use 100% O2 and EAN 50.

The additional deco mixes if needed can be determined by you, or specified by your instructor. I use Tmx 30/30 and Tmx 20/40 together with EAN 50 and 100% O2 to give me a nice smooth progression from bottom mix to 20% 02, 30% O2, 50% O2, and finally 100% O2 during decompression.

Generally, as you egress to the surface, you progressively increase the fraction of O2 in your mix, so as to decrease the fraction of inert gas combination (helium, nitrogen, trace of argon, and other trace gasses) in your mix. By decreasing the inert fraction, along with gradually decreasing the ambient pressure due to depth, you allow the dissolved inert gas(es) to decompress (off-gas) out of your blood, body fat, muscles, and organs very gradually.

This is required when you exceed the NDL time-depth limits. You will learn all about bottom mixes, travel mixes, and deco mixes. It is a great review of college physics for gasses, and a lot of fun.
 
Last edited:
I have D9 and I use for advanced nitrox. I can change three mix 21%, 50% or 100% of oxygen with D9 in water. D9 calculate all stop decompression time and I don't need a table. For D6, I don't know.

Hi Tomeck, good to see you again. I see that on another thread you said that you had taken your D9 to 70m. Do you use your D9 for tech diving in Dive Air mode with decompression info or just in gauge mode? Have you ever actually used the D9 to switch to three different mixes on a dive? The D6 can only do two gas changes.

Oh and in your profile I see it says that you got trimix certified this year. What agency/course did you do?

Sorry for the raft of questions!
 
Generally, as you egress to the surface, you progressively increase the fraction of O2 in your mix, so as to decrease the fraction of inert gas combination (helium, nitrogen, trace of argon, and other trace gasses) in your mix. By decreasing the inert fraction, along with gradually decreasing the ambient pressure due to depth, you allow the dissolved inert gas(es) to decompress (off-gas) out of your blood, body fat, muscles, and organs very gradually.


So how does having more oxygen in the mix you breath decrease deco time? Is it because by having less inert gases in the mix as you ascend you reduce the uptake of gas on your way up and therefore don't add even more N2 to your body?
 
I don't mean to be rude, but a bit of searching would go a long way. Learning to deco dive one question at a time on the internet is going to be a very slow process. You might be better off over on thedecostop.
 
I don't mean to be rude, but a bit of searching would go a long way. Learning to deco dive one question at a time on the internet is going to be a very slow process. You might be better off over on thedecostop.

fair point, I don't expect to receive all the answers from here. However, I do have about 15 tabs open at the moment on several sites, including the deco stop and have run several searches on scubaboard and am working through some of the threads I have found there. I am an eminently very curious person, (how I got into diving and a host of other things in the first place) and only post a question when I haven't found a satisfactory answer elsewhere. Don't ask, don't get. But I welcome all opinions, dissenting or otherwise, :wink:
 
Listen, I love the curiosity. It's great! I'm just saying, there is a TON of info out there if you just search. Poignant questions are going to get a better reception than the ones already covered many times elsewhere. Good luck in your search!
 
Sorry but could you explain what an m-plan is and what cut tables are? Forgive my ignorance but until now I have only dived within recreational limits.
Using the dive algorithm set at 50% sounds interesting. What exactly are you saying that doing this gives similar times to?

There are many different software packages that will calculate a dive plan.
M-plan is just one, V-planner, is another. These output a set of tables that you then cut and paste into wetnotes or your slate (aka cut tables).

Read the manual on the adjustable Suunto RGBM model. Basically it changes the level conservativeness in the algorithm. Changing the conservativeness changes the require deco time. This is something that is possible with most of the deco planning software packages.

Again a good instructor will go over this.
 
I have D9 and I use for advanced nitrox. I can change three mix 21%, 50% or 100% of oxygen with D9 in water. D9 calculate all stop decompression time and I don't need a table. For D6, I don't know.

The only major difference between the D6 and D9 is the transmitter. So what are you doing if your computer goes **** up? What is your back up?
 
So how does having more oxygen in the mix you breath decrease deco time? Is it because by having less inert gases in the mix as you ascend you reduce the uptake of gas on your way up and therefore don't add even more N2 to your body?

What a great question! Now you are in the area of gas physics theory. I hope you enjoyed college physics and gas chemistry.

When you are at a depth of 20 fsw, and you are breathing 100 % O2, you are taking up no inert gas. Therefore this is the perfect depth at which to decompress the various inert gases from your blood, fat, muscles, and organs, because this is generally the deepest depth at which you can safely breathe pure O2. But you need to get there first.

You cannot quickly get to this depth from your MOD however. Normally your first deco stop must be around 1/2 of your MOD, arrived at from your MOD at 60 ft per min, and followed by 10 ft stops thereafter, normally of 1 min each for the first series of deep stops, followed by 2 min stops, then 3 min stops, then 4 min stops, etc. as determined by your favorite deco software.

To answer your question, then, it is by increasing the O2 fraction of the deco gas, when it is safe to do so, which tends to reduce the deco time at every given stop. The reason this works seems to correspond with the kinetic theory of gases, and the partial pressure theory, which seems to observe that gases in a mix act independently of each other.

Decompression of a given gas in the mix, resulting from the differential or pressure gradient between the partial pressure of a given gas dissolved in your blood compared with the partial pressure at which you are breathing it, takes place in your lungs across the avioli. It is an observation of the dynamics of decompression based on experimentation. It can be explained by theories of gas solubility and gas permeability across membranes (your avioli) having different partial pressures on either side of the membrane.

Higher concentrations of gases appear to migrate from higher pressure to lower pressure. This is why you introduce a higher fraction of oxygen, in order to induce a lower partial pressure of inert gas(es). This appears to speed up the decompression process. It is analogous to mopping up water with a sponge in your kitchen.

You should never lose track of what is happening in terms of dynamics of molecular particles that are taking place, if you are trying to understand decompression procedures. The deco software will give you limits on your ascent, with stops, in order to regulate the decompression (off-gassing) to within a tissue tolerance level, which is built into the software algorithm. After a given amount of time at the various stops, you may then proceed to a slightly shallower stop, in very small increments of 10 ft (3 meters) each. This drives the decompression procedure. Then switching to a richer mix of oxygen, which will also correspond to a leaner mix of inert gas, then the decompression speed at that stop increases, because there is less inert gas partial pressure across the membrane of your avioli compared with the partial pressure in your blood, which is washing all of your other body tissues (fat, muscle, and organs) clean of inert gas.

Remember that the inert helium will act independently of the inert nitrogen, even though each of these considered as a whole is inert. By varying the fraction of each, in your bottom mix, and in each of your deco mixes, you can also speed up their decompression. Your deeper mixes will contain more helium, whereas your shallow mixes will contain more nitrogen, and ultimately you will end up on pure O2, with no inert gases.

That is how it seems to work. Our research data result from goats in compression chambers, navy sailors, and cave divers. This then gives rise to complex mathematical algorithms, which ends up in your favorite deco software and/or deco computer. I use the DiveRite NitekHE as my primary with V-Planner generated deco tables as a backup with a gauge-mode SUUNTO. Because as ScaredSilly mentioned, you ALWAYS need a backup, for everything that your life depends on.
 
Hi Tomeck, good to see you again. I see that on another thread you said that you had taken your D9 to 70m. Do you use your D9 for tech diving in Dive Air mode with decompression info or just in gauge mode? Have you ever actually used the D9 to switch to three different mixes on a dive? The D6 can only do two gas changes.

Oh and in your profile I see it says that you got trimix certified this year. What agency/course did you do?

Sorry for the raft of questions!
No problem!

Yes, I dove to 70 meters with D9 in Dive Nitrox mode with decompression. I used three different mixes on a dive. To go to 70 meters with Dive Nitrox mode, there is a problem because of OLF with ppO2 more than 1.6 and if OLF is more than 85%, there is an alarm. With D9, it is not possible to program to decrease below 21%. For trimix, I used a table calculated with VPM (Variable Permeability Model).

I didn't use yet a gauge mode, but I will use.

If I dive to 50 meters with trimix in Dive Nitrox mode, RGBM of D9 and a table calculated with VPM are very close, but the rise with trimix is slower while following the table than with air. D9 don't calculate for trimix.

I got normoxic trimix diver certified with TDI.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom