The all-inclusive tipping note -- Boats, DMs & Instructors

[voop]

As a rule, I do not tip: where I dive, the DMs are salaried. Making an effort in being a self-sufficient diver, I have never needed anything from the DM, so why would I tip?

I bring my own gear, haul my own cylinders, can find my way from and back to the anchor-line and I already pay to be on the boat.....why should I have to pay yet again?

On rare occations, if the DM has gone an extra mile for me, I do tip. That, however is quite quite rare.

If the DM is a nice dude (or dudette) and we get along, I do, however, from time to time invite the DM for a beer/lunch/dinner/whatever after/between the dives. Often travelling alone, it's as much for selfish reasons: either I eat alone, or I invite "that guy who's also alone when the rest of the clients have left". It does occationally yield the "Hey, let's take the zodiac to an early morning dive tomorrow without clients"-type invitations. Working DM's usually like to dive for fun too, on occation, and seem to welcome the chance to do so without having to "nurse" another diver

As for dive boats where the DM is not on salary and has to make his living from tips....well, that's just SICK: the dive-op has an "employee" who has to beg for his salary. That ain't right and I don't consider that as a decent way to treat DM's. I thus chose to avoid such dive-ops at all costs....

Just my opinion anyways....

 

[kwesler]

I ALWAYS tip! Not only do I do my own gear, I do not let anyone else touch it. However, I tip $10 per diver per day. These folk make too little $ as it is...

my $.02...err...for the tip...I mean...nevermind

Ken

 

[Mo2vation]

If you figure you're paying $90 - $120 for a 1 day 3 tank all inclusive trip (food, gas, snax, etc.), and the diving was good and the crew wasn't snotty - I'll throw in $20.

If I'm on one of those al-a-carte boats (charge for fills, and grub) or its a simple two tanker (only 1 fill, and 1 SI) then it'll usually be $10.

I go to great lengths to learn the name of the crew and try to get a rapport going (referring to them by name, being polite, showing respect, etc.) - doubtless left over from my fishing days, when such treatment usually meant I got the killer sardine while others fished with the pinners.

Such behavior is almost always recieved with appreciation and return respect. In these cases, $20 for a day trip is not unreasonable. On multi-days, I may dial it back a notch, but if the trip just ruled, and I got 12 - 15 fat fills, and we had a kick it up time, $60 for three days is reasonable.

My experience is these guys work hard, and are watching my back.. so give them some lovin.

YMMV

K

PS: Cyg - welcome to the board.

 

[voop]

....when you pay 120USD for a day-trip?

Say, you bring your own gear (sans cylinders, weights), don't rely on nor let anyone else set up your kit and you're diving alone with your buddy (i.e. that you do not need to be shephearded around and have someone check your SPG for you)?

It seems to me that the crew salary, the tanks+weights and the boat ride should be inclusive in that price, no?

Tipping, where I come from, is something done for "extraordinary services". I do not consider that "fullfillment of duty" as "extraordinary". I'd consider "fullfillment of duty" as what I pay for when I pay for the trip.

Similarly, do you guys also tip the bus-driver?

 

[Mo2vation]

While I don't tip a bus driver - I surely tip a cab driver.

A bellman in a hotel.

A server in a restaurant.

This holiday season, I'll give some loving to my LA Times delivery guy.

K

 

[kwesler]

you are of course correct in theory...but in practice, tips are often included in the compensation calcuation for people who work on the boat-same as restaurants. If things worked the way they shuould, tips WOULD only be for extraordinary service. As I noted-I have many friends who are waiters, waitresses etc. who not only depend on tips, but are TAXED on their ESTIMATED tips by our friends the feds!

Ken

 

[kwesler]

just saw Voop is from Europe...perhaps it is a cultural difference?

Ken

 

[voop]

Mo2vation once bubbled...
While I don't tip a bus driver - I surely tip a cab driver.

K

But of course, culture has everything to do with it. Try tipping a Japanese cab driver -- I am not sure if he will take it as an offence, but from what I've experienced, it ain't expected and if you try to tip him he will politely refuse....insistingly....

In California, the cab driver got upset when I offered only 10% tip for a ride from San Francisco to the airport.....

As I started by saying, the boats I've been on, where there has been a DM present, he's been salaried by the dive op. I was surprised to learn that, apparantly, there are places in the world where DM's have to "beg for their salary". (I do consider that to be inappropriate and am surprised that it's legal, but that's a different story....)

What I do think is funny/interresting/strange is, that I see 90-120 USD quoted as the rate for a day-trip on a boat -- with additionally 10-20 USD expected in "mandatory tips". In Europe, I pay roughly the same for a day trip (70 Eur or so), tips not expected.

Anyways, should I ever get myself on an US diveboat, I will remember to include the mandatory tips when computing the total "cost" of the trip...and try to remember to bring the cash on board too

 

[voop]

kwesler once bubbled...
you are of course correct in theory...but in practice, tips are often included in the compensation calcuation for people who work on the boat-same as restaurants. If things worked the way they shuould, tips WOULD only be for extraordinary service. As I noted-I have many friends who are waiters, waitresses etc. who not only depend on tips, but are TAXED on their ESTIMATED tips by our friends the feds!

Ken

Well...my country of origin is Denmark (I do not live there any more, though). A long time ago waiters in Danish restaurants were making a lot of their wages from tips.

Being a very organized country, such disorganzation is not good -- how do you, for example, calculate income revenue tax on tips in any accurate way? Hence, that was changed -- I think by law, but I am not sure. The prices in restaurants now include "service charges", which are to cover what the waiters get. They're then taxed based on that (which is no longer an estimate but a fact) and the clients know what is expected in form of payment.

Of course, if you feel exceptionally well treated, you can leave extra. But you're not cheating anyone by not doing so.

I do not know if that holds in other european countries too, nor do I know if it (by law?) expands beyond the restaurant profession. But I do know, that it is very very rare that I encounter the expectation of "tips" locally.

To me, that actually is nice. Because if someone, say a DM, does something special for me, then I can show explicitly that I appreciate it. And he will know that it's a sign of grattitude, not a "it's because it's custom" thing. When a sign of appreciation becomes "expected", it looses its value, I think....

The best example I can think of was once when the DM's dive-op ran out of O2 for EANx. The DM drowe to the other side of town to get fills for me in a competing shop. It wasn't his fault that the LDS owner ran out of O2, and he was in no obligation to do anything but pass on the message "we're out of 'trox". However he said "I'll see if I cannot figure out something" -- and earned himself a healthy tip.

Anyways, we're going way off of what the original posting was about. I deeply apologize

 

[kwesler]

it is actually quite interesting...and a good example of a well meaning act (tipping) going awry (becoming almost mandatory). I have read REAL horror stories of tremendous pressure being brought to bear on divers on liveaboards for tips. However, never having done one, that is hearsay.

Regards,

Ken