The Buddy system and separation problems

[landlocked]

Originally posted by Paulb2
Hi everyone

Does anyone have any stories where the buddy system has saved lives and/or prevented a serious accident? What about stories where the buddy system has failed to save lives or even been the cause of a serious accident?

Thanks

Paul

My instructor (somewhat embarrased) shared a personal story with us. On her first ocean dive, she was having the time of her life playing with a pair of sea lion pups. Getting caught up in the fun she ran a little low on air. Subsequently, she found it necessary to share air with her buddy in order to safely complete her assent and safety stop. Obviously, she shared this story with us in order to teach us two lessons. Watch your air and sometimes a buddy is nice. I am sure that these kind of incidents happen on a reoccuring basis. Unfortunately, they do not create statistics.

My two cents worth. I am a relatively new diver. I have neither the equipment nor the experience to consider solo diving anywhere but in a shallow swimming pool. Consequently, I dive with a buddy. We have the same training, we practice emergency skills together and we dive together. Solo diving may be an option at a later date, but I don't really think that it is a viable option for the larger part of the recreational diving community. I think that most recerational divers are in a situation similar to myself. In other words, insufficient experience, trainning and equipment. That said, I can see future days, where I could feel comfortable on some dives in a solo configuration. But for the time being, if I don't have a buddy I feel comfortable with, I don't dive. My family deserves that much consideration.

 

[Paulb2]

Thanks for the links and contact info I will most definitely follow them up.

Panic is an interesting area. I have an article that explains how swimmers in trouble are often unable to shout for help (apparently a common misconception ).
Their main concern is to get enough oxygen (inhale) and shouting would prevent this from happening (exhaling). Could a panicking divers experience a similar problem, which would make it difficult to get help for eample swimming to a buddy, giving hand signals, using a touch or tank banger to communicate etc

Thanks

Paul

 

[WetDane]

This is why I think there is a growing division between the Rec. divers and the Tech. divers, and that division is REDUNDANCY.

I have to agree that there appears to be more buddy concern amongs technical divers.
I think it is not so much a training question - the issue was well presented when I learned to dive - but awareness and realization did not come until later.

I don't think being prepared to dive solo is a solution - that is like a band aid on a preventable porblem - prevent the problem by being trained properly and by diving with divers who accept that training is a needed part of diving.

I think the points set forth by Uncle Pug are pretty much right on the money - as is the statement made by LY -

maintaining the buddy team is rule number one throughout the dive

This is what should be taught. Sure, you may want to go off on a sightseeing tour - but take you r buddy with you. Is it worth dying over another fish? I don't think so.

On my dives there are always a leader and that person is who all others follow - you don't go rummaging around on your own. And - if you do - you will not be diving with me again - and most likely not with a lot of people here - since getting the "accident waiting to happen" stamp kinda lmits your options.

Anyway,
Big T

 

[devilfish]

I?ve been reading this post and where do I start? Where do I end?
Does the buddy system work? Absolutely. Is it falling apart? Absolutely.
The system works only if both divers are independent capable. However the typical nowadays scenario of a buddy system is, they enter together, they dive in the same ocean and sometimes they exit together. This causes separations but this is not why the true buddy system is failing. If no difficulties happened during the dive and buddy system was a success. Great!
What is a buddy system? Two divers not only diving together and sharing experiences of their excursion, but most importantly they are together just in case one needs assistance in the event of a minor or serious difficulty. Well, if both are not capable of helping the other and most importantly if both are not trained in rescue then there is not buddy system. In fact it?s an illusion and false confidence. What makes this situation even more serious, should one need to be rescued in any way and the untrained buddy attempts to help, they both may wind up as victims. If a diver is not capable and physically fit to help themselves, how can we expect them to help another. It happens too often in pursuit of a recreational activity.
According to a most major training organization the number of divers who are rescue trained is only 6%, another major organization reported only 4% and another major organization labeled as ?para military? reported less than 1% of divers who have taken a rescue course.
So where is the buddy system? If both are not rescue trained then in effect they are diving solo, worst than solo.
So, now since the buddy system has fallen apart we are promoting solo diving to accommodate the concept of a buddy system to be less then safe. This presents another problem. How many solo divers have taken a solo diving rescue course? How many are truly qualified to dive solo? Sure, anyone can jump in, blow bubbles for a while and get out if nothing happens. What if something does? Why don?t we promote a good rescue course with frequent refreshers before we push all kind of specialties. Diving is not dangerous, only many divers are.

 

[Lost Yooper]

I don't know about all of that, Devilfish. While you are right that many are probably all thumbs when it comes to a rescue situation, at the very least you have the option available. See what I'm saying? If you get tangled up bad on a solo dive and can't free yourself, do your best to bend over and kiss it good bye, right? If you have buddy, even the worst of buddies, at least you have a shot of survival.

Here's a parallel: A couple of muggers walk up to you in a dark ally armed with knives and demand your money (or just feel like killing you). You have no weapon and are at the mercy of the mugger -- no options. Now, let's say you carry a Glock. What are your options now?

The success of buddy diving is that all of the team members have to be committed to it in order for it to work effectively. Two minds and four eyes are generally better than one mind and two eyes. Look, I'm not a nutt case buddy team person. I don't have a problem jumping into the water alone and going for a swim in a familiar or easy environment just to relax or to try out some new gear, but I always take someone along for advanced dives, though. I would say that less than 2% of my dives are solo.

Solo diving has everything to do with risk assessment. Like walking in down town Detroit ar 2am or something, you have to know the risks and accept them. One thing is for certain, IMO, diving with a good buddy is safer than solo diving any day of the week.

That's how I look at it.

Mike

 

[budgy]

Hi Devilfish,
I agree with what you say about buddy skills and that is really the difference between a Padi O/W and a club sport diver. We learn the skills of buddy breathing, shared ascents and rescue for our cert, and are not permitted out on our own until we are proficient, this takes far more than a weekend. In fact most need at least twenty five dives experience to qualify.

 

[devilfish]

Mike, I agree with you 100%, a dive with a good buddy is safer than solo. The key word is "good buddy" not just another body for me to worry and maybe put me at risk.
Don't get me wrong. I do dive solo often, when I teach I'm worst than solo, when I guide "certified" strange divers then I'm really solo and it's scarry, but I also dive with a buddy, mostly my wife and that is far more enjoyable and safer than alone.
As for getting entangeld while solo, no big deal, no reason to buy the farm, if can't reach it, take the bc off and undo it or cut it with shears. Of course with a good buddy it would be much easier.

 

[Lost Yooper]

I guess my example was a bit too specific. There's a whole host of scenarios that could leave a solo diver without options that only a buddy (an extra set of eyes; another brain) could help with.

If you don't dive with unsafe divers, the entire discussion becomes mute. Of course, as you get into the more advanced stuff, the stakes grow. Guides and instructors do what they have to do. The bottom line is that whether you choose to solo dive or not, everyone has to balance the risks.


Mike

 

[devilfish]

Budgy, you must be reffering to CMAS, club environment. I always liked the approach. However the rest of the world makes it an agency rock throwing contest. I myself have never seen an agency logo on an exhaled bubble. A diver is a diver is a diver. Too many make it an agency thing rather than training.

 

[bluce]

My buddy and I take turns leading. The first 15 minutes I might lead, going and looking at whatever I want. My buddy basically tags along and looks at what I am looking at. Then we switch. He leads, I follow. Not perfect but very fair. So far it is working. Otherwise there is a strong chance of separating, especially when visibility is low.
Bob