The Buddy system and separation problems

[Eyeball Mike]

Originally posted by Paulb2
Hi

So the foundations of a safe dive are made before the dive takes place. The question is, do these tasks make much difference and if so why do some divers choose to ignore them?

Also, does anyone have their own method for determining if a new buddy is up to standard like asking them curtain questions, watching how they treat other people, getting a feel for their attitude etc?

Thanks

Paul

Although new to this particular discussion board I am an experienced diver. My opinion is that if anyone has difficulty communicating or experiences unwanted separation underwater then they do not have the skills to dive in those conditions. That said my buddy and I often separate so we can do our own thing (we are both trained and practiced solo divers)


Eyeball Mike

 

[WetDane]

Good question Paul,

I think it makes a lot of difference - and while going over things like emergencies and the dive plan you have a good opportunity to gauge what your new buddy knows - and you do become more prepared.
I think that a major reason that a lot of people blisfully ignore this is that the general training for scuba is setup to induce a feeling of safety into people and get them out diving, most people do not really realize just how hostile the underwater environment is - if there is a massive failure, you are likely to die, that is just a fact. I think that when you start to really think about that, you also become very careful with how you behave and how you plan.

As far as new buddy - I often have an opportunity to talk to oterhs about them - since I know a lot of divers around here I sometimes get word of mouth as well...
If you meet someone out diving - just go over and ask how the last dive was - you'll be surprised what people will tell you - like they penetrated this little wreck and left their buddy waiting outside... (hmm, what do you think of that?).
I once dove with a guy who seemed ok, then at 130 on a wall - he decided that "same ocean" buddy system was how he was going to conduct the dive - fortunately he was 3rd leg on our buddy team so my regular buddy and I could continue our dive - when we got out of the water, he was already out and saying "Oh - I think I outswam you guys down there" so the guy checked out - but when we hit the water he did not pass...
Word comes around - he is no longer on our maillist - nobody wants to dive with him as the behavior is considered "accident waiting to happen" and nobody wants to be around for that - and when someone new comes up and says "I got invited in a dive by so and so" I say - don't go - the guy is dangerous - I'll take you diving there myself if you want to do that dive.

So - to ansswer your question - I don't think there are specific questions - you can look at how they put the rig together, it'll tell you if they are new or rusty... Then go on some easy dives first - no big deal right? If they are smart - they will be cool with you wanting to just feel them out as a buddy before doing major dives - and they may want to do the same thing...

Now - one thing I want to ask of you is - don't ever tell a newbie "NO", there are a lot of people out there who refuses to dive with newly trained divers - that's too bad - this is where your future dive buddies and friends come from - and like you - they are standing around and wondering who, when and where to dive...

Anyway - I think I'm going to go and dive...
Big T

 

[budgy]

Hi Paul,
Regards standard operating safety procedures at dive sites, I was at a popular dive site the other week, no stand-by rescue diver had been appointed, when a distress call was given by a diver some 300 yards away. No person was equipped or appointed to immediatly respond to the call, fortunatly he could shout as no one was watching for a diver in distress. Most of us looked to the other to take the lead, some delay took place before anyone went to his rescue. Fortunatly no loss or injury occured.
Had loss of life or serious injury occured, would we be wondering "IF" our dive site organisation was a contributory factor, in our ability to respond and render first aid.
There will always be some risk and danger attached to diving. I think we should still prepare ourselves properly and stay lucky.

 

[Eyeball Mike]

Seems to me that if everyone learnt solo diving skills you wouldn't need to worry about the competence of a buddy!! Diving with a buddy is fun but to hold them responsible for your own safety!

:flame:

 

[Paulb2]

Hi everyone

Thanks for the feedback

We spoke about underwater communication in previous messages and we discussed light but what about sound. This seems like a good form of remote communication but I don’t remember anyone saying they use it, why is this?

I have heard of things called ‘tank bangers’ but how effective are these and aren’t they difficult to locate?

Thanks

Paul

--------------
Learning all the time

 

[detroit diver]

Sound is not direction specific, and thus difficult to find the source. But more importantly, its usless in poor viz.

For Divemasters working with a group of contained divers, the sound generators can be very useful as an attention getter in clear water-ie "look at the octopus" or "watch out for the shark", etc.

The other problem with sound units is that they're attached to your life saving device (the BC) and adds a level of complexity that shouldn't be there.

 

[detroit diver]

Originally posted by Eyeball Mike
Seems to me that if everyone learnt solo diving skills you wouldn't need to worry about the competence of a buddy!! Diving with a buddy is fun but to hold them responsible for your own safety!

:flame:

And what happens when your "solo diving skills" can't handle the problem?

 

[Ber Rabbit]

We introduce our OW students to this concept near the end of the course. If you place your regulator against your buddy's forehead and then slowly shout what you want to say the sound vibrations will travel along the skull to the ears and you can actually hear what is being said. It takes some practice but it can be done.
Ber

 

[Uncle Pug]

Originally posted by Ber Rabbit
If you place your regulator against your buddy's forehead and then slowly shout what you want to say the sound vibrations will travel along the skull to the ears and you can actually hear what is being said.

The bone phone doesn't work for us wearing a thick hood...
We use in order of preference and usage:
1) light beams (passive and active)
2) hand signals
3) wetnotes for more detailed and intelligible messages
4) shouting

Last Saturday at 130 fsw in D.P. I could clearly hear Shane shouting from 10 feet behind me... clearly hear him but not clearly understand what he was shouting... something about RRRRRRAAAAAWWWNNNNAAAAAHHHH

 

[Ber Rabbit]

Didn't mean to be fuzzy, guess I should have mentioned you can't have anything between the regulator and forehead. My instructor holds their head and presses her regulator into it to get good sound transmission. I'm still working on it, sometimes you can understand me, sometimes you can't.

Occasionally I hum when I dive and my buddy can hear that sometimes. We normally use hand signals, don't have the fancy lights I have a slate but can't find anywhere to carry it to keep it from dangling and annoying me so it rarely goes in the water. Necessity is the mother of invention so now we have signs for "this su**s" and "get your head out of your butt." I'm working on one for "I'm going to kill this stupid dry suit!"
Ber